Citroen C35 transmission.

Who is running one.

I like to know how the shifter linkage setup is.

I am not interrested in Don't, Skip, Shitbox trow away answers.
I am not interrested in use UN1, Audi, Porsche whatever instead


I know early KVA came with these tranny's and they can be easely beefed upto 450bhp with correct turning CWP and Quaife ATB.

So who is running one?
I have one in the car ( abandoned project I bought ) but I don't have linkage or shifter or whatever needed to shift and trying to get an idea how to get it shifting.
I am converting to LHD and so on the shifter will move to the centre console.
Just bought a Toyota MR2 MK2 Revision1 Type Gear Cable Stick Shifter to start with.
Any help apriciated
 
Hello, I have a Citroen C35 transmission in my GT40 MkIII with Rover V8 engine and LHD. Send me your e-mail address and I can send you pictures.
Regards from Cologne, Manfred
 

Cliff Beer

Supporter
JP - check out Lotus Forum - Lotus Talk. There's a guy there who has developed a better CW&P for the C35. The quaife LSD is also highly recommended.

Other than the above I'm not sure there's much else to do to specifically increase the strength. If you don't do something they'll have short operating lives where 200+ hp/tq. is applied - that's why Lotus went to the UN1 with the higher hp turbo Esprits of '89 onwards.

As Mike showed, the linkage for the C35 that tends to be used the most is rod and cable.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
JP - check out Lotus Forum - Lotus Talk. There's a guy there who has developed a better CW&P for the C35. The quaife LSD is also highly recommended.

Other than the above I'm not sure there's much else to do to specifically increase the strength. If you don't do something they'll have short operating lives where 200+ hp/tq. is applied - that's why Lotus went to the UN1 with the higher hp turbo Esprits of '89 onwards.

As Mike showed, the linkage for the C35 that tends to be used the most is rod and cable.
By Quaife I got in contact with the guy you mentioned ( Harry Martens from Pagina niet gevonden – DS-Vitesse also lives in Holland. I allready got in contact with him
He indeed has a better CWP ( correct turning teeth ) and Quaife ATB and C clip upgrade. He will do our transmission next month so it will be good for 450bhp.

I am converting the car to LHD so stick shift will be in the middle. Guess that Rod will be an issue.

ManfredM you have PM
 
JP - check out Lotus Forum - Lotus Talk. There's a guy there who has developed a better CW&P for the C35. The quaife LSD is also highly recommended.
.
YEP, you have to talk to Mr.D on Lotus Talk!

In 2014, he has identified the reason for the inherent weakness of the C35 tranny CWP, if used amid-ship with clock-wise rotating engines (as seen from the front). Maserati engine, which has a mid-ship location, rotates counter-clock wise and C35 transmission has CWP "flipped" to the opposite side. It has NO such a problem like Esprit.

Why OEM (Citroen DS/SM) CWP in Esprit configuration is inherently weak?
Originally, Citroen C35 gearbox was designed to run in the opposite direction on Citroen DS and SM (forward location). For Lotus Esprit configuration the whole gearbox was "flipped around" and placed behind the engine, thus all gears and the CWP is running "backwards" !

Ideally, the pinion gear should rotate the crown wheel on the drive side of the tooth. If however, the pinion rotates the CW on the coast side, strength of the gear set can be reduced by as much as 20%. Therefore, the CWP on Esprit cars is weak in forward drive and its strength is much better in overrun!
Similar situation exists on the front Land Rover differential, which KAM, http://www.kamdiffs.com/products-2/diff-ratio/
was able to resolve by installing a reverse cut CWP. As it is mentioned on KAM website, in the OEM front axle of the Land Rover, the OE gear set is running “backwards”, being driven on the coast side of the teeth rather than the driven side and as such is weaker. So, the reverse cut gears were required for this configuration!

Mr.D has a new, reverse spiral CWP design completed and has been competitively quoting it now.
Prices are scattered widely. One would have to order minimum of 10 pairs to make this project economically feasible. Thus, initiating a Group Buy initiative is the only way to accomplish this project. For details see: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f164/citroen-g-box-crown-wheel-pinion-350506/index10.html

Comparing to the original Citroen CW+P, new design addresses several critical deficiencies of the old OE parts.
It offers:
- reversed direction of the spiral - to correct the OE design and apply force to the correct flank of the tooth (see posts 53-60)
- larger tooth pitch resulting in increased thickness (30% strength increase)
- revised, more robust pinion gear tooth design
- better final ratio of 1:4.286 (vs 1:4.375), which improves the top speed in gear (more "peppy")
- aerospace grade alloy steel ( as used on critical aircraft engine gears/shafts)

Here are some gear/traction calculations:

*******************************
Final Gear Ratio….: 4.286
Tire Size………....….: 275-40-18
Max Power RPM…..: 6000
Limit RPM……….....: 7100
*******************************

*********************
Gear..Ratio…Compound ratio
*********************
1 ….2.930 …....12.558
2 ….1.940 …...…8.315
3 ….1.320 …...…5.658
4 ….0.970 …..….4.157
5 ….0.760 …..….3.257

***************************************
Gear.MPH/1000....MPH @6000…MPH @7100rpm
***************************************
1 …..........6.32…....…….38……...........…….45
2 .......…...9.54…....…….57……...........…… 68
3 …........14.02…....…….84……..........…...100
4 ........…19.09.…….....115………............136
5 ........…24.36…...…...146………............173 MPH

************************************************** *****
MPH………………………RPM (in Gears)
************************************************** *****
…….......…1….…...…2…...…..3…......…4…….....…5
************************************************** *****
. 5……...791….…524…..…357....….262….....205
10…...1583…..1048…....713….....524….....411
15…...2374…..1572…..1070….....786…...…616
20…...3165…..2096…..1426…...1048…...…821

25…...3957…..2620…..1783…...1310…...1026
30…...4748…..3144…..2139…...1572…...1232
35…...5539…..3668…..2496…...1834…...1437
40…...6331…..4192…..2852…...2096…...1642
45…...7122…..4716.….3209…...2358…...1847

50………....…….5240…..3565…...2620……2053
55………....…….5764…..3922…...2882……2258
60………....…….6288…..4278…...3144……2463
65………....…….6812…..4635…...3406……2668

70………….........…..…....….4991….3668…...2874
75………………........………5348….3930…...3079
80…………………............…5704….4192…...3284
85……………………........…6061….4454…...3490
90……………………........…6417….4716…...3695
95…………………........……6774….4978…...3900
100…………….…......…….7130….5240…...4105

105…………………........……………..5502…...4311
110………………………........………..5764...…4516
115……………………….........……….6026..….4721
120……………………….........……….6288…...4926
125……………………….........……….6550…...5132
130……………………….........…….…6812...…5337
135………………………….........…….7074…...5542

140………………………………....................…...5747
145…………………………………...............……5953
150………………………………...............………6158
155………………………………...............………6363
160…………………………………...............……6568
165…………………………………...............……6774
170…………………………………..............….…6979
175………………………………..............….…....7184
************************************************** *****

Gear Change RPM drop (change @6000) RPM drop (change @7100)
************************************************** ***********
1 ->2…......…-2027 (To 3973).(19.60%)..........……-2399 (To 4701)
2 ->3…......…-1918 (To 4082).(21.28%)..........……-2269 (To 4831)
3 ->4…......…-1591 (To 4409).(27.12%).........……-1883 (To 5217)
4 ->5…......…-1299 (To 4701).(36.19%)….........…-1537 (To 5563)
************************************************** ***********

Several Ligier JS1 race cars were equipped with Citroen tranny in Maserati configuration 1969 - 1970 Ligier JS1 Ford Gallery Images - Ultimatecarpage.com
I suspect that they may have had some internal modifications
.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
In the beginning of 2020, the "Ultimate" CWP is coming on the market. US design/supplier

All NEW geometry 4.428 ratio improved design with stronger teeth.


*******************************
Final Gear Ratio : 4.428
Tire Size : 285-40-18
Max Power RPM : 6200
Limit RPM : 7000

*********************
Gear Ratio Compound
*********************
1 2.920 12.930
2 1.940 8.590
3 1.320 5.845
4 0.970 4.295
5 0.760 3.365

***************************************
Gear MPH/1000 MPH @6200 MPH @7000
***************************************
1 6.21 39 43
2 9.35 58 65
3 13.74 85 96
4 18.69 116 131
5 23.86 148 167

************************************************** *****
Gear Change RPM drop (change @6200) RPM drop (change @7000)
************************************************** ***********
1->2 -2081 (To 4119) -2349 (To 4651)
2->3 -1981 (To 4219) -2237 (To 4763)
3->4 -1644 (To 4556) -1856 (To 5144)
4->5 -1342 (To 4858) -1515 (To 5485)
************************************************** ***********
 
Top