costs of engines

[Jim Rosenthal]

Today I settled up (well, as much as anyone can be finished with any phase of one of these projects) the bill for the engine for my GT40....and this made me think a bit, always a dangerous proposition.
I started with a 1968 302 block- some here may recall my search for a Mexico block with the big main caps. Things came out about like this:
Block: $250
Forged internals kit: $1350
AFR heads $1650
Weber 3x2 rig and manifold, from Pierce $1400
Oil pan from Armando: $450
Ignition, pumps, etc $1200
Machine work and assembly: $2500
Additional parts (cam, oil pump, etc)$1200

This adds up to about $10,000, and this engine has not come to life yet. AND, this is just an averagely good motor: not the best stuff inside, although it's all very good, and not a 48IDA or Motec system on top. This motor will probably make about 350hp (I hope so!) and hold together despite spirited driving and use.
Would I do it again? well, maybe not. I might get a crate motor knowing what I do now. After all, it would make respectable power and in a 2300lb car I would get excellent performance. These things have a way of developing 'mission creep', and since I can't build an engine myself, here's where I ended up.
Oh, I forgot; Canton cast aluminum valve covers, powdercoated flat black. $140/pr. Did I mention the engine looks great, by the way? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Dyno within two weeks, with any luck. I will post photos and results.

 

[Alain Vanhollebeke]

It adds up real quick, Jim.
I have found an easy way to feel better about it though.
Whenever I start to think that making HP with a ford engine is expensive,,,,, I just dig out my old receipts from when I was playing with porsche engines.
Ten grand in parts for a flat six (2.0-2.8 liter) gets you around 225-240hp if you are lucky.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Good point, Alain. Or a Ferrari engine. The Lusso/GTO engine I mentioned in a previous post probably cost 30,000$ by the time it was done. I should consider myself lucky.

 

[Tim Kay]

You will soon forget the $$ when you get that 'priceless' feeling that makes you hoot every time you get on down the road.

Tim

DENTIST, n. A prestidigitator who, putting
metal into your mouth, pulls coins out of
your pocket. --Ambrose Bierce

 

[James]

It adds up fast doesn't it!!Especially whe you go mad with Motec etc. More power, more $$$. It seems to get good power from a 302 you end up paying big money. My engine ended up costing about £15k or $27k in your money.

I'm sure I could have had it built for less, but it was built and dynoed by some of the absolute best in the business. It makes a conservative 450HP.

Regards,

J.P

 

[Howard Jones]

I thought I should put my costs in this thread for the searchers.

SVO 302, GT40X alum heads, B303 Cam $2800
Eldenbrock RPM performer intake and 750 doublepumper $650
Eldenbrock alum waterpump $160
Cobra cast valvecovers $110
Canon 7Qt oilpan and pickup $300
MSD 6Al box, MSD Billit Dist, MSD wireset, MSD blaster ss coil $500
cost of changing mufflers and jethot coating exaust $500
Front timming cover and dampner $300
Rebalance flywheel and rebuild clutch(by centerforce) $400
All the little stuff like stainless fuel lines and AN fittings, belts, hardware. $100
I made all my accessory mounts myself for free but it took at least 80 hours of work

Total $5820

As with the rest of my car project I didn't spend any money on labor except the stuff I can't do myself, ballance flywheel, Jethot coating.

This motor seams to make about 325-365hp I'm really not sure because I'm too cheap to spend the money on Dyno time. Also all these prices come from Jegs where I bought them except the crate motor. I had a connection and got it at jobber. They are $3100 today.

As you can see It's pretty easy to spend $6000 on a motor.

 

[Chris Duncan]

'91 H.O. roller 302 with 90K miles, pistons still good for another 50K, re-ring, and put new brgs. $600

AFR heads $1250

Cam, timing set, roller rockers, racing balancer, gaskets, brgs, rings, misc. $700

TWM induction w/injectors $4,000

Autronic SM2 ECU (with self learning software) $1,500

Ignition, pumps, etc $800

Building oil pan and doing engine assembly myself.

Est. 400HP @ $9,350.00 (gulp, never added that up before!!!)

 

[Brian]

Unfortunately I can't go with the high priced spread, so I am getting a 5.0 roller block, refurbished .030 over, Canton road race sump, melling high volume pump, 10:1 pistons, true roller timing set, Comp cams race/street cam, Magnum roller rockers, Edelbrock big valve heads, Performer RMP intake, Edelbrock carb, Accell distributor, short nose water pump, etc, Complete from air cleaner to drain plug, bench run and tuned for a pretty decent price from the Engine Factory. Next time I talk to Chris I'll ask him if he minds me posting his price. It's due to be in my garage mid-June.

Brian

 

[Mike Dozier]

Advanced Auto rebuilt 5.0...$ 1,300 (add $ 200 if no core)
Edelbrock intake, Holley carb...$ 450 (Summit Racing)
Accel distributor, coil, wires....300 (Summit Racing)
Moroso oil pan and pickup.........140 (Summit Racing)
Misc parts (water pump, alternator)...$ 300

Total.....$ 2,490

Incomplete exhaust system from George... $ 1,600
Missing collectors, muffler, Jet Hot... $ 900
Total exhaust.... $ 2,500

People laugh when I tell them my exhaust cost more than
my motor....they think I'm kidding...

MikeD

 

[Steve Toner]

I budgeted $10,000 for my engine. Came in pretty close:

289 long block w/Edelbrock Performer RPM heads: $4220
Weber 4x44IDF carbs/manifold: $3970
Replacement main jets & emulsion tubes: $260
Pulleys, water pump, dist, alt, MSD 6AL, ARP bolts: $1015 (approx)
"289 Powered by Ford" valve covers: $120
Aviaid oil pan: $680
Dyno time: $1515
Total: $11780 ($10,265 w/o dyno)

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Interesting to see, I feel better about this as I am not at the high end by any means. My idea was to build a motor in which the bottom end was good for more power than the motor would make, sort of an internal insurance policy against blowing it up. I don't think it will make a lot more power than a crate engine, if any, but it may be a bit sturdier. Thanks to all for sharing information.

 

[Ron Earp]

JP, that is a lot of cash! That sort of money over here would build an aluminum 427 side oiler or thereabouts. But, I know Fords aren't cheap to do in the UK. But I like your builder if it is the same guy I met there with Malcolm, a good guy. I thought I saw you posted his name somewhere and I recognized it, I think.

I'm in mine for about $10k all told, with Webers being almost $3k of that.
FMS Sportsman block
Forged crank for 342 inches
Forged pistons
Forged rods, lightened
Main girdle for support
X303 cam
Crane rockers
AFR 185 heads, CNC port, custom program
Canton front sump kick out pan, fits great!!!
1 5/8" crossover exhaust
4x48 IDFs on aluminum manifold, I port matched everything

It's all dressed out with fully accessories including AC, I'd like to weigh it now. Lynn, got a big fish scale????

R

 

[Gary Gibbs]

My engine (build specs on www.gt4d.com ) cost about $12,500.

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Here is a quote I got from a pretty well thought of NASCAR engine builder in the Charlotte, NC area. It included full assembly of block and neutral balanced rotating assembly with all bores and components blue printed and then checked again during assembly. It also included a set of Jesel Sportsman series shaft rockers for AFR heads.

The Dart block sells for.....................$2050.00
JE pistons, pins and locks....................$750.00
standard ring set...............................$125.00
The Eagle crank is.............................$589.00
The rods are....................................$469.00
Rod and main bearings are.................$120.00
Jesel rockers w/shortblock for.............$675.00

Total...............................................$4778.00

Machine work
1. Deburr block................................$175.00
2. Line hone.....................................$200.00
3. Square deck.................................$200.00
4. Bore,honew/fixture........................$200.00
5. Fit lifters bores..............................$75.00
6. Balance assembly w/heavy metal........$495.00
7. Fit rod bushings & pistons..................$150.00
8. Clean all parts..................................$75.00
9. Install cam bearings & plugs...............$30.00
10. Assemble short block.......................$800.00

Total..................................................$7178.00

Install heads.......................................$200.00
Dyno.................................................$500.00

Total.................................................$7878.00

Regards,
Lynn

 

[Mark Worthington]

Lynn, I thought that price looked great but then I realized it didn't include heads, cam, or ignition stuff or exhaust. Sounds like a great engine though.

Mine was free...that is to say it was included with the kit I bought. I think it would cost about $15,000 (maybe more) to replicate, if I include the cost of the exhaust system and of the Motec EFI and 8-barrel intake manifold. Someday I'd like to build up a solid-roller aluminum-block 321 (4.125" bore by 3.000" stroke) but I think the long block would set me back about $12,000. I'll have to blow up my 347 before I spring that one on the wife!

 

[Bill Musarra]

Gary,
With those heads, how livable is the engine. All the reports I have seen show that big a head was for all out racing and would be hard to live with on the street. How has it been for you. Most of the "street" engines used the 185's and 205's(?). Since I am going to have to bore my 351 engine anyway, I was planning to shoot for about 383 or so C.I. and ~500-550 HP. Haven't settled on which size head yet.
Bill

 

[Gary Gibbs]

Heads seem fine on a big displacement setup. I would probably not run them on anything less then ~ 400 CI. You can go with 205's for a smaller stroker.

 

[Ron Earp]

I dunno, I think if you're spending more than Gary or Lynn (with intake etc) or over around $13,000-$15,000 for a SB Ford then you're getting taken for a ride. At $15,000 the engine has a Dart block, arguably the best in the business, all forged bits, AFR heads, and the best of the best. Not only that, but it can be just about any inch displacement you want on the Dart block out to, I think, 448 inches, or something like that. That is more than you need, for sure.

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Ron,

The Dart aluminum 302 is ~$3800-$4000. If you go this route it would be prett easy to get to $15K.

Lynn

 

[Ron Earp]

Didn't count an Al block, but even if you do at $5,000 you'd not be much over $18k.

Still, for the motors I've seen people write about here $15,000 should be about it for an iron block SB Ford with good stuff.

I think you can build a completely suitable one startying with a running yard motor for about $3500, but I know I'm in the minority on this one.