Fire suppression system question

[Pat]

Looking at fire suppression systems for my 40 as I build it. I’ve read several articles here about them and am wondering about a couple of things.
- not going to be racing it so don’t need to conform to any rules so should I add nozzles in the cabin or keep a bottle in there? This way I could run all the nozzles to the engine.
- with mid engine car I won’t see the fire right away so do people use an automatic thermal system or the cable pull with some sort of alert system with light on the dash?
- any difference between Novec 1230 and Fluoro FS? Is one better than the other?
- would a 10 lb bottle put down a fire (assuming I kill power and fuel pump) I understand the blast is only a few seconds.

Thanks for any and all advice!

 

[Rob Klein]

Zero 360 FIA 3.0kg FK 5-1-12 Stored Pressure Electric System - Polished

www.lifeline-fire.com

 

[Randy Folsom]

Zero 360 FIA 3.0kg FK 5-1-12 Stored Pressure Electric System - Polished

www.lifeline-fire.com

Nice but expensive and I wouldn’t trust an electric system.

 

[Randy Folsom]

Looking at fire suppression systems for my 40 as I build it. I’ve read several articles here about them and am wondering about a couple of things.
- not going to be racing it so don’t need to conform to any rules so should I add nozzles in the cabin or keep a bottle in there? This way I could run all the nozzles to the engine.
- with mid engine car I won’t see the fire right away so do people use an automatic thermal system or the cable pull with some sort of alert system with light on the dash?
- any difference between Novec 1230 and Fluoro FS? Is one better than the other?
- would a 10 lb bottle put down a fire (assuming I kill power and fuel pump) I understand the blast is only a few seconds.

Thanks for any and all advice!

Did you get an answer to your question? What system did you end up with?

 

[Jean-Marc]

I just did the job on my car, it is better to choose a system that is conform for racing. It is just because the poeple that do homologation for safety know what is the best.
I would be curious on how works a system that can detect fire ? Especially for the position where the fuel pump are installed.

J

Thread 'RCR GT40 Cinderella in France'

Feb 14, 2024

Hello,
I introduce myself, I am 65, retired, I live in east side of France close to Dijon. I am familliar with old Ford, I have sevral models like a 68 F250, a Mustang and a 63 1/2 Galaxie with a 427 65 Tunnel Port that I drive on track days. But since the Le Mans adventure in 65, I was dreaming of a GT40. I finally got one. The car is a RCR MK1 of 2008 initially built by a gentleman Thomas Rider, that was active on this forum I believe. The car was stored unfinish since a long time in UK and I purchased it from a vendor.
I have a lot of cleaning or cosmetic work to do, plus to finish the...

• jmcgalaxie
• Replies: 95
• Forum: RCR Forum - RCR40/SLC/917/Superlite Aero

• 

 

[Randy Folsom]

I am looking at automatic / manual. I was thinking 5 lb bottle, but I saw a comment by John Howard that the 10 lb bottle is only a little bit larger. I want automatic since the driver in a mid engine car is usually the last to know there is a fire. I also want the deployment of the system to kill the fuel pumps.

 

[Walter]

From my own experience: on a race car follow the regulations of the sanctioning body (FIA, SCCA....). On a non-race/occasional track-day car I strongly recommend a hand-held extinguisher !!!
The reasoning: it's hard to predict where exactly the fire is unfolding - but that's where the extinguisher (inevitably with limited capacity) needs to be applied. On a race track you can hope for extra assistance from the marshals with their bottles but not so on public roads - there you are on your own.
My experience: 1. Car port - street car: fire near the battery due to a shortened starter: hand-held extinguisher saved my car (replaced the starter and installed a master switch). On another street car I once had a small fire under the dash due to a shorted wire .... 2. Race track (track day and plumbed-in extinguisher FIA conform), fire starting from the carb's filter: much of the extinguisher's material was wasted as it went into the foot well or areas with no fire. Marshals took ``forever" to show up.... car needed a total rebuild at an expense way beyond its value (monetarily - not emotionally . ...

 

[Randy Folsom]

From my own experience: on a race car follow the regulations of the sanctioning body (FIA, SCCA....). On a non-race/occasional track-day car I strongly recommend a hand-held extinguisher !!!
The reasoning: it's hard to predict where exactly the fire is unfolding - but that's where the extinguisher (inevitably with limited capacity) needs to be applied. On a race track you can hope for extra assistance from the marshals with their bottles but not so on public roads - there you are on your own.
My experience: 1. Car port - street car: fire near the battery due to a shortened starter: hand-held extinguisher saved my car (replaced the starter and installed a master switch). On another street car I once had a small fire under the dash due to a shorted wire .... 2. Race track (track day and plumbed-in extinguisher FIA conform), fire starting from the carb's filter: much of the extinguisher's material was wasted as it went into the foot well or areas with no fire. Marshals took ``forever" to show up.... car needed a total rebuild at an expense way beyond its value (monetarily - not emotionally . ...

For sure going to have a hand-held. Thinking to mount it between the seats so I can reach it from either side.

 

[Randy V]

For sure going to have a hand-held. Thinking to mount it between the seats so I can reach it from either side.

I suggest mounting the hand held on the floor directly in front of the passenger seat. It’s not in your way or going to be knocked by an elbow or hand. You will be able to reach across this very small compartment with ease.
—
Another suggestion -
For remote mounts, I suggest throwing away the alloy tubing that comes with the package and use Nicop or steel tubing. The alloy tubing will melt quickly in a fire and is damaged quite easily in a wreck.
FWIW - I also do not trust electronics for discharge operations…

 

[Devin]

After some extensive research both here and on manufactures websites, comparing systems/agents, serviceability here in the US and installation size & ease, I have the Safecraft LT5JAA or AB systems on the top with the AMRC-500 in second. The Safecraft system has up to three nozzles and even a thermo activation optional one. I am figuring two nozzles in the rear and one in the footwells or front clam where my battery and most of my electrical system will reside. If I don’t put a nozzle inside the cockpit, I will definitely mount a small handheld somewhere inside like I have done in my Cobra.

Comments on experience with the Safelite or FireBottle systems?

 

[Pat]

Did you get an answer to your question? What system did you end up with?

I still haven’t picked a system and lie you am torn between 5 and 10lb bottle. Will also mount a secondary hand held bottle on the floor in front of passenger seat like I do in my other cars.

 

[Neil]

I still haven’t picked a system and lie you am torn between 5 and 10lb bottle. Will also mount a secondary hand held bottle on the floor in front of passenger seat like I do in my other cars.

When you are on fire, you cannot have too big of an extinguisher. You don't want to fool with getting a hand-held into operation, either. I'd use a halon cable-pull or automatic fire bottle(s).

 

[Randy Folsom]

I suggest mounting the hand held on the floor directly in front of the passenger seat. It’s not in your way or going to be knocked by an elbow or hand. You will be able to reach across this very small compartment with ease.
—
Another suggestion -
For remote mounts, I suggest throwing away the alloy tubing that comes with the package and use Nicop or steel tubing. The alloy tubing will melt quickly in a fire and is damaged quite easily in a wreck.
FWIW - I also do not trust electronics for discharge operations…

Randy, Thx for those insights. I will check out the PS floor mount. Yes, to better tubing. Cheers, Randy

 

[Tige vellone]

Been running lifeline electric for over 20 years it's the best would never use a push pull cable electric is very simple and nice. No issues in 20 years flawless not so archaic as a cable

 

[Neil]

Been running lifeline electric for over 20 years it's the best would never use a push pull cable electric is very simple and nice. No issues in 20 years flawless not so archaic as a cable

Pull cable actuation may be "archaic" but it is reliable and works even if your electrical system in knocked out in a crash.

 

[Randy Folsom]

Some thoughts

• One could use a small 12v Lithium Ion motorcycle battery with an electric system to mitigate the risk of losing main battery power. The main battery circuit would still be available and would charge the small battery. The weight is negligible. I use one of these batteries for circuit testing.
• In my view, any electric system must have a manual deployment capability. I have not done enough research to know if that is available.
• I want the deployment of the fire suppression system (either manual or automatic) to cut off the power to the fuel pumps. Hoping that capability already exists.

 

[Devin]

Some thoughts

• One could use a small 12v Lithium Ion motorcycle battery with an electric system to mitigate the risk of losing main battery power. The main battery circuit would still be available and would charge the small battery. The weight is negligible. I use one of these batteries for circuit testing.
• In my view, any electric system must have a manual deployment capability. I have not done enough research to know if that is available.
• I want the deployment of the fire suppression system (either manual or automatic) to cut off the power to the fuel pumps. Hoping that capability already exists.

Randy I had the same thoughts on the need to cut fuel pump power. My thought process was to collocate the master cutoff switch on the same panel as my fire pull cable. I’m falling back on the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle of engineering . I haven’t got to that part yet so am following this thread to see what’s out there for ideas too.

 

[Neil]

Randy I had the same thoughts on the need to cut fuel pump power. My thought process was to collocate the master cutoff switch on the same panel as my fire pull cable. I’m falling back on the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle of engineering . I haven’t got to that part yet so am following this thread to see what’s out there for ideas too.

The red switch guard shuts off all electrical power, including fuel pump. In an emergency, just bat the guard down with your gloved hand.

 

[Randy Folsom]

The red switch guard shuts off all electrical power, including fuel pump. In an emergency, just bat the guard down with your gloved hand.

Neil, Thx much for the information.

 

[Malcolm]

I put a G sensor in the power supply to my fuel pumps. In an accident over 10G the pumps automatically cut power. It has a simple reset push button. Fixed it to the chassis behind the dash on the door hinge area. Only ever gone off once when I spun off in a competitive event and bounced over very rough terrain!