GT40 vs. Modern Cars - M3 - 911 - Lotus etc.

[F1Ash]

"How do the GT40s compare in handling and OR lap times to some of the modern cars you guys are running with out there?" (i.e. E92 M3 - 997 Carrera - Lotus Exige etc.) Im Assuming it handles Fairly the same Because of the weight advantage?? Is that wrong!?

I understand the advantages and disadvantages because of the differences between the cars on an engineering and technological front; (i.e. when it comes to the active gadgets in the engines and the suspension components) but the GT40s you guys run have full race coil overs and weigh significantly less (roughly 900 lbs less than the M3, about 500 lbs less than the Porsche... 400 heavier than the Exige...although heavier in this case the GT40 does have 2 times the engine power typically)

Anywho, My assumptions are based on my readings that the GT40 weighs 2,500 lbs with engine and trans... if Im wrong let me know what might be a good estimate. Either way... how does it compare? Anyone?? anyone?!??!


?!??!?!?? Just curious

 

[Seymour Snerd]

"How do the GT40s compare in handling and OR lap times to some of the modern cars?...

If I wanted to know the answer to that question I'd find out Dennis Olthoff's lap times at the various tracks he's raced at (Watkins Glen, VIR, ....?) and then find out how those other cars do on those tracks when driven by someone of his level of expertise.

But I don't. But you could do that....:thumbsup:

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Rons Lola weighs 200lbs more than an Exige Cup car and has similar power(230hp ish) and laps at the times at VIR ( and he is still playing with set up too)....so with a real engine and set up, he should be significantly quicker...

 

[Jeff Young]

Correct.

I'd say a RCR GT40 set up and with "big power" (assuming a similar chassis to the Lola) would be fully capable of running with a modern car with similar power and, in fact, be quicker due to the fact that almost all modern cars eother than the Lotus are tanks.

Dennis was in the low 2:00 lap range at VIR which is about 10 seconds off what a modern SCCA GT-1/Trans Am car runs....and is very fast and very impressive.

The Lola chassis is capable of that as well, I am sure.

Rons Lola weighs 200lbs more than an Exige Cup car and has similar power(230hp ish) and laps at the times at VIR ( and he is still playing with set up too)....so with a real engine and set up, he should be significantly quicker...

 

[Ron Earp]

Rons Lola weighs 200lbs more than an Exige Cup car and has similar power(230hp ish) and laps at the times at VIR ( and he is still playing with set up too)....so with a real engine and set up, he should be significantly quicker...

Yep, that is correct. Lap times thus far have only been in the 2:14 range but that isn't with 100% effort nor with the suspension properly setup. We were still learning the set and are working on it.

Jeff and I both feel that with the car as it sits it'll be a 2:07-2:10 second car which isn't bad considering it is sporting little power. With the addition of more hp the lap times would drop significantly but we're developing the car as an endurance car with a 25 gallon limit so we are constrained a bit.

I think any GT40 replica would be similar.

Dennis's SPF GT40 replica was right at 2:00 last summer. His car is well-developed and sports a ex-Cup motor at around 700 hp. Hard to beat those engines for the price. And there is more time in his car he said as he was on crappy tires.

I haven't seen any other "GT40" type cars run at VIR or other tracks local to us so our data is pretty thin. But, suffice to say I think when setup properly they'll properly dispatch the cars you mention. Howard, Tim, and some of the West Coast GT40 guys track their 40s and will probably have more info.

Jeff used to have a Lotus Exige on race tires that he tracked at VIR. It wasn't as fast as his best time in our Spec Miata. It was promptly sold off after that excursion.

 

[Damian]

My only experience would be me in my M3 (e46) (gutted, caged, CF this and that, lighter glass; the whole nine) chasing an SPF GT40 at Lowe's motor speed way during a private track day (messing around on the infield track). I will say that with over 320whp weighing in at just under 3000lbs it took everything she had to keep up. In the corners we were right on top of each other but than the road opened (got to love those nascar straights) up and BYE BYE M3!!! M's gone now and looking for an SL-C to replace it (once I get hitched). Again this was just a case of two knuckle heads playing around but the GT40 was def. a faster rig. I will say that I got smoked by a 900hp cobra the same day (everywhere) to lol. I have no idea of the times just that I was pushing as hard as I could and still was just barely able to keep up and again only in the turns ( which I think had more to do with me pushing harder than he was in the turns).

 

[Jeff Young]

Not directed at you Damian, but one observation here. When I started doing track days, I did so in a 240 hp M Coupe. And I feel victim to the idea that more hp always means more fun.

Maybe. It also means more speed, more danger, more maintenance and ultimately more dollars.

You can have just as much fun, mostly, in a Spec Miata with 120 whp as you can in a car with 500 whp. It's different. And I really think it helps your driving skills when you move up to the higher hp stuff. A SM makes you learn about corner speed, and momentum, and conserving speed, and late threshold brakign and the improtance of keepign the throttle pinned as much as possible, and the importance of not coasting.

Higher hp cars, and I'm guilty of this, mask mistakes. Torque/power let you make up for driver errors.

My 2 cents. Have fun, whichever way you choose to get on track.

 

[René]

The GT40 is the best looker, but I also like the raw Daytona (Cobra/Shelby)
say both have around 500hp both are very fast, only the Daytona is a bit more practical, but who's faster in the same hands and with the same power...

is it the lower wider? GT40 or does the Daytona come very close, to make it easier say on a long circuit like the Nurburgring or so.

 

[TrevS]

Well I don't think many modern cars would keep up with Ron's RCR
YouTube - Summit Point RCR GT40#14-2

Trev

 

[René]

Well I don't think many modern cars would keep up with Ron's RCR
YouTube - Summit Point RCR GT40#14-2

Trev

thats not so friendly to that Ferrari owner

 

[Damian]

Jeff I agree with you. I drove the car stock for a year before I did anything to it. At first it was def. more than I was used to (previous track toy was an RX7) and took some getting used to but with LOTS of behind the wheel time and listening to the local track junkies I was able to be competitive. I actually found that walking the track helped out more than I would have thought. I did fall pray to the idea (in the very begging of my build) that more hp meant faster times until I had my A$$ handed to me by a miata at Lime Rock. After a serious gut checked I made the decision to hone my driving skills which turned out to the best thing I ever did. Thanks to the Miata for opening up my eyes back then :thumbsup:

 

[Jeff Young]

Damian, they did the same to me. I couldn't believe it the first time a Miata handed me my ass in my M Coupe. Unpossible!

Quite possible, and a hell of a learning experience.