Hi guys. New to the forums here and just trying to get my head around a few things with the GTR. Looking to get one at the end of this year so just doing some research. Engine question: if i built a GTR up, why would i choose a $10,000-20,000 (AU Dollars) Coyote engine over a Boss engine easily found for $1,200-5,000? im guessing physical size and weight comes into it, but i can get a complete coyote engine here in Australia for $18k, where as i could get a boss engine for $1200, have it fully rebuilt in race spec with a supercharger etc for probably less, or the same amount and end up with loads more power. am i missing something? Im knew to the GT40/GTR scene and dont know much yet. Appreciate any input.
GTR ENGINE CHOICE
- Thread starter Benny W
- Start date
My only criteria’s are weight and power, but I dont know enough about Ford engines to know whats what, so I actually want others opinions.
Neil
Supporter
Benny,
Everyone has his own favorite but there is much to recommend a Chevrolet 350 small-block (SBC = small-block Chevy) or one of the LT series. The SBC has been produced for many years and it is probably the most popular engine for swaps due to its availability, low cost, and the wide range of aftermarket parts that are available at low cost compared to other makes. The SBC is small, relatively lightweight, and can be easily built to a displacement of over 400 cubic inches. Ford is a good choice if you wish to preserve the GT40 heritage but you will be more limited in what is available. A bone-stock LT-x Chevrolet is also lightweight and powerful... and cheap.
Everyone has his own favorite but there is much to recommend a Chevrolet 350 small-block (SBC = small-block Chevy) or one of the LT series. The SBC has been produced for many years and it is probably the most popular engine for swaps due to its availability, low cost, and the wide range of aftermarket parts that are available at low cost compared to other makes. The SBC is small, relatively lightweight, and can be easily built to a displacement of over 400 cubic inches. Ford is a good choice if you wish to preserve the GT40 heritage but you will be more limited in what is available. A bone-stock LT-x Chevrolet is also lightweight and powerful... and cheap.
Appreciate that info mate, ill do some reading. I would like to keep it all Ford, but if for example both small block Ford and Chev motors were roughly the same weight, if the Chev was thousands cheaper its a no-brainer. Thanks for taking the time to write your reply
Ron McCall
Supporter
Benny,
Keep in mind that the car will have a more limited audience when it comes time to sell if you choose a engine combo that is not historically associated with the car. The GT-R is based off of the Ford GT which originally came with a DOHC Ford engine. If and or when it comes time to sell, a majority of the interested parties will be interested in the car ,at least initially, because of that link.
Just my opinion.
Ron
Keep in mind that the car will have a more limited audience when it comes time to sell if you choose a engine combo that is not historically associated with the car. The GT-R is based off of the Ford GT which originally came with a DOHC Ford engine. If and or when it comes time to sell, a majority of the interested parties will be interested in the car ,at least initially, because of that link.
Just my opinion.
Ron
This is a good point Ron, something I didn’t think about. I have done a lot of research the last few days, and have found a couple of written off Mustangs, with the engine and everything associated with it for sale. This might be the best option, as this will come with everything needed plus extra parts like brakes and possibly a few other bits and pieces. I would prefer to keep it all genuine Ford, because one day the car will go to someone else like you say. Wise words.
Cheers mate
They are roughly the same weight and the SBC is far cheaper to modify (we're talkin' the traditional small blocks)...but, Ron's point about RESALE is no small consideration and perhaps should trump any of that.
Regardless, my original point is still valid. ;-)
Howard Jones
Supporter
I was at a track open track weekend last fall and THREE mustang Coyote motors blew up before lunch Saturday. You better make sure you know about the engine oil problems as well as other issues those motor have. The Boss 4 valve is fine from what I have seen. The best value HP/$ there is, is a 350 chevy. Mine makes 450HP on pump gas and I have something less than 6KUS$ in it. Forged crank, Brodix alum heads, and a roller hyd cam. You will never run out of cheap parts.
The LSx series are getting there also. The LS3 with a cam makes 550HP ish all day long but is about 1/2 again the cost. If I was on a budget I might consider a LS3, cam and a 750 Holley. You could get pretty close to a old school SBC dollar wise with a good used motor and a upgraded cam. Slap a intake and a Holley on it and you are good to go.
The LSx series are getting there also. The LS3 with a cam makes 550HP ish all day long but is about 1/2 again the cost. If I was on a budget I might consider a LS3, cam and a 750 Holley. You could get pretty close to a old school SBC dollar wise with a good used motor and a upgraded cam. Slap a intake and a Holley on it and you are good to go.
Do you know much about these problems? I have read anything about it and only heard good things thus far
While I still have a lot to learn, with this build id like to get it right first go. Id like 600+hp so its not going to be cheap whichever way I go, and reliability will be key. A supercharger is also a possibility. Whichever way I go I dont want to cut corners, but my initial question is still valid, why spend $20K if I can spend $10? If I need to spend more thats ok, I just want quality and reliability and if thats $10K more thats ok. I just dont want to waste money on some brand name heads/parts ect that are no better than something else at a much lower cost because I didn’t know better
Howard Jones
Supporter
The best advice I could give you on Coyote motors would be to go over the internet forums that cater to mustangs and especially the 5 liter cross plane crank V8. Other wise, If you are going to use pump gas then I would recommend you start with as big (cubic inch) a motor as you can. The larger the engine the more power you can make and still keep it to a compression ratio that will run on pump gas. Most often a maximum of 11 to 1 is right at the limit taking into account compression loss to cam timing. That's what I did when I started with a 11 to 1 static and ended up with right at 10.6ish with the big cam I ran.
600hp is a lot, no matter what you read on the engine builder websites. 600/400 is still 1.5 hp per inch given a 400 inch motor. That's getting pretty close to as much as pump gas can support. The other factor is the power trains ability to take the power, especially on slicks.
Saving money and big power just don't go together very often IMHO. In a pinch I would trade power for power train strength.
600hp is a lot, no matter what you read on the engine builder websites. 600/400 is still 1.5 hp per inch given a 400 inch motor. That's getting pretty close to as much as pump gas can support. The other factor is the power trains ability to take the power, especially on slicks.
Saving money and big power just don't go together very often IMHO. In a pinch I would trade power for power train strength.
Yep understand. Perhaps I worded that wrong, and I should have said ‘wasting’ money instead of ‘saving’ money. The idea of posting on here is to gain some knowledge so I spend wisely. Agree that cheap wont mean good.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Yes I got that wrong. The voodoo V8 is the one I mean. It is the flat plane crank one. The other 4 valve ford V8 (coyote) seams to be servicing well in mustangs and even my F150. But its small, 5 liters.
So most bang for the buck AND good reliability. I think I still come down on the side of a old school 4 bolt 350 based SBC or a 351 Winsor based SBF. Given the 550hp+ requirement either a 383 Chevy or a 393 SBF. At that HP level you will need forged rotating assembly's, modern alum heads, and quite a bit of cam (I suggest a hyd roller upgrade for both engine types) and as I said before nearly 11 to 1 compression ratio ad 93 octane gas.
The Chevy can be built for 6-7K$ if you do the assembly and the Ford will be $1000-1500 more. Quality machine work is a key here. That will take some research for you location.
So most bang for the buck AND good reliability. I think I still come down on the side of a old school 4 bolt 350 based SBC or a 351 Winsor based SBF. Given the 550hp+ requirement either a 383 Chevy or a 393 SBF. At that HP level you will need forged rotating assembly's, modern alum heads, and quite a bit of cam (I suggest a hyd roller upgrade for both engine types) and as I said before nearly 11 to 1 compression ratio ad 93 octane gas.
The Chevy can be built for 6-7K$ if you do the assembly and the Ford will be $1000-1500 more. Quality machine work is a key here. That will take some research for you location.
Yeah I am with you on the 351 small block Ford. I would like to keep everything Ford so thats the platform I think I need to start from. I found out a mate of mine I ride dirt bikes with is actually a car mechanic. After a good chat, he recommended a shop with more experience with race engines than he has, so im talking to them about the race engine, but my mate will build the engine for my 1954 Ford F100 which is the tow vehicle for the GTR. A win win really.
As far as horse power goes, that will be dictated by engine weight. So for example if I can get 600hp with an engine that weighs 570lbs, id prefer that than an engine with 700hp that weighs 670-700 lbs. Its going in a race car im trying to keep super light, so thats a factor.
Neil
Supporter
"As far as horse power goes, that will be dictated by engine weight. So for example if I can get 600hp with an engine that weighs 570lbs, id prefer that than an engine with 700hp that weighs 670-700 lbs. Its going in a race car im trying to keep super light, so thats a factor."
Benny, you've answered your own question- a Chevrolet LT series is a powerful aluminum V8 that is cheap & widely available- and relatively compact.
Benny, you've answered your own question- a Chevrolet LT series is a powerful aluminum V8 that is cheap & widely available- and relatively compact.
Neil
Supporter
Benny:
One final lil' factoid and I'll shuddup!
The FGT's original 5.4 has been modded to put out UNGODLY levels of h.p. and torque just by using external mods...and have 'stayed together'. The bottom range of the h.p. achieved that way has been in the 800-1,000 h.p. area.
That engine has proven to be darned near bullet proof at pretty much any power level. So, long term, even if you spend a little more to buy and mod one of those, there's a good possibility you'll never need to touch it again (assuming you're NOT going to have your foot in the radiator every single second you're behind the wheel
).
You know the ole saying: "You can pay me NOW...or you can pay me later."
'Best,
L.
One final lil' factoid and I'll shuddup!
The FGT's original 5.4 has been modded to put out UNGODLY levels of h.p. and torque just by using external mods...and have 'stayed together'. The bottom range of the h.p. achieved that way has been in the 800-1,000 h.p. area.
That engine has proven to be darned near bullet proof at pretty much any power level. So, long term, even if you spend a little more to buy and mod one of those, there's a good possibility you'll never need to touch it again (assuming you're NOT going to have your foot in the radiator every single second you're behind the wheel
).You know the ole saying: "You can pay me NOW...or you can pay me later."
'Best,
L.
Benny:
One final lil' factoid and I'll shuddup!
The FGT's original 5.4 has been modded to put out UNGODLY levels of h.p. and torque just by using external mods...and have 'stayed together'. The bottom range of the h.p. achieved that way has been in the 800-1,000 h.p. area.
That engine has proven to be darned near bullet proof at pretty much any power level. So, long term, even if you spend a little more to buy and mod one of those, there's a good possibility you'll never need to touch it again (assuming you're NOT going to have your foot in the radiator every single second you're behind the wheel
You know the ole saying: "You can pay me NOW...or you can pay me later."
'Best,
L.
I love your answer man, made me smile Im building this as a race car, so yeah...... its gonna be flat to the floor non stop man
