Gulf Oil Rig Disaster

Another baby Bush legacy... big oil, go figure.

Scares me to think about how many other rigs out there that are potential time bomb from cost cutting measures.

Chris
 
Andy, I am not saying that your friend didn't sell some thig-a majig to the oil company for a gazillion bucks, but in my 75 years I have heard a lot of similar stories involving big oil, Firestone, GM etc.. I have yet to see anything that would substantiate these stories. It would be great to see some proof of these myths. Secondly I believe that oil drilling disasters such as this are world class serious, but remeber, you, not the oil company will end up paying for clean up, lack of drilling, increased safety measures etc. Would another $.50 a gallon, world wide, cover it? Would serious research into alternatives to replace the huge volumes of crude now used be of any value? Wind, Solar, Photo Voltaic, tides etc. sure won't cover the replacement! So how to we get the research moving faster? As oil becomes more expensive and scarce lots of products in the plastics field will also climb dramaticly. No easy solutions that I know of and slamming the oil companies for a blunder just makes us feel better, but doesn't elimenate the problem.
 
Another baby Bush legacy... big oil, go figure.

Scares me to think about how many other rigs out there that are potential time bomb from cost cutting measures.

Chris

I am continually flabergasted by the continuing influence GW Bush has on the world! All of it seems to be in a negative way. Who the hell is the next president going to blame? Certainly not BO! We could still use good old George, he invented oil and off shore drilling didn't he? Pretty lame Chris.
 
I am continually flabergasted by the continuing influence GW Bush has on the world! All of it seems to be in a negative way. Who the hell is the next president going to blame? Certainly not BO! We could still use good old George, he invented oil and off shore drilling didn't he? Pretty lame Chris.

...and that's the problem - nobody's to blame.

Chris
 
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...and that's the problem - nobody's to blame.

Chris
I would say that BP should have used the proper blow off valve. The goverment agency overseeing drilling should have inspected more often if they did at all. If there wasn't a safety procedure in place to cap a well in a minimal length of time if a part failed, then drilling should not have been allowed at this ocean depth. As it is, no one has the foggiest how to fix this, and that in itself is complete stupidity. "I think we'll drill a well at 5000 feet, I sure as hell hope nothing bad happens because I don't have a clue how we can fix it" No one does anything with that lack of forethought. No one except BP I guess!
 
.....and the reason they are drilling in 5000 feet is because the enviro folks have lobbied against them doing so closer to shore. They can only drill where the feds tell them they can
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Surely cutting the bust pipe off

Inserting a lump of exoplosive and pushing it down say 300 feet

Detonating it and making a 300 foot rock plug to stop the oil coming out

Perhaps 300 foot is not enough - explosive experts would be able to access the depth requirement

Ian
 
You could make it worse by doing that the explosion could frag (perforate) the resovoir even more and then it would be even more difficult to fix. Unfortunately there are so many unknowns at that depth.
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
It seems a lot of talk is taking place about the industry in general, but when are we going to see conclusive evidence that all the events leading up to this disaster were preventable (provided interviews with survivors are acurate). Will a time ever return to our society where a corporation actually considers factors other than profit motivation (yes, I know, profit is the primary emphasis and is what keeps business viable) driving procedure and policy. From what I've determined, the operator was working well within safe practices UNTIL someone above said "do it quicker" and then ignored the resulting warning signs (rubber from the POV seal, etc). Those are the guys that ought to be hung up. Once again, short sighted profit rather than long term profit. And look where it got them. Kinda reminds me of my teenage daughter...can only think past her nose and does not consider the implications of the decisions she makes. Rant, rant, rant.

Every time I look at my unfinished project in the garage, I wonder if BP will be the catalyst for the demise of the internal combustion engine before I even finish my project.
 
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Kirby Schrader

They're mostly silver
Lifetime Supporter
Wow... I have been busy lately and haven't read things here in awhile.
Just got back from a trip to Saudi and found you guys have been busy.

To answer some things brought up...

As was pointed out, nobody on the planet has technology to drill in deepwater except the oil industry.
No diver can go down there, no submarine can go that deep. It is left up to the remotely operated vehicles to do that.
Remember, it's cold down there, too.

The government has nothing even close to it. I laughed when they said they were going to bring in the Navy.
What does the Navy have to assist with the disaster? Nothing.

And why are oil companies drilling in deep water in the Gulf of Mexico, in the South Atlantic off Brazil, in the East Atlantic off Africa, etc.?
Uhhh... because everyone likes filling up their gas tanks. BP is not the only people drilling at these depths.
Shell, Petrobras, Chevron... the list is quite extensive. 5,000 feet is not something special these days.
A lot of the rigs are rated to go to 8,000 to 10,000 feet. We're working on equipment here to go to 20,000 psi and handle 200degC temperature.
This is high tech stuff!

I really can't believe that everyone expects the government to be the answer to everything.
People in government are just that... people. People make mistakes, are lazy and whatever else is bad about human beings.

There are no 'secrets' in the petrochemical or oil industry. You can study petroleum engineering in a lot of universities all over the world. You can work for any one of the many oil companies and service companies in the industry.
What 'secrets'? I work in the industry.
There are no secrets. In fact, everyone in the industry shares their technical knowledge in open forums.

Now, the government.... well....

Come on guys... a gallon of gasoline has the most available energy in such an easily handled small volume. It beats out anything else for ease of use, ease of transportation and energy. That's why it is still the energy source of choice.
Everyone keeps talking about alcohol... yeah, right... less energy available.
And it is much more expensive to make.

And I'm all for the new 'clean energy' sources. But we're going to have to turn off a lot of stuff if we plan on using only wind power or solar power or algae power or whatever... Gas, coal and oil fuel most of our power plants.
OK, maybe France has the right idea. They run their country on nuclear plants.

Explosive to 'push it down 300 feet'? How do you make a 'rock plug'?
Setting off a bomb will just fracture the rock around the well and the remaining pipe at the seabed.
As was mentioned, you'd just make the problem much, much worse.

The BOP stack and pipe they use on these wells will handle 15,000psi if they are in good working order. These obviously weren't...

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to defend BP.
It is apparent that corners were cut, mistakes were made and information that should have told them they had a problem was ignored or thought to not be significant.

As for corporations profit motive... well, who demands they make a profit?
The shareholders... we do... and, in general, most corporations have been driven to short term profits as opposed to long term goals because the shareholders demand it.

So, we the people want the oil to run our lifestyle, we want companies to be profitable so our money makes money and wow... best of all, we voted in those folks in the government....

FWIW,
Kirby
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Well said, which if the truth be known, my little project's emphasis on my life is somewhat at odds with my desire to see our country (the world) "clean up" energy use. So there, I've said it, I feel a tiny bit guilty about building the car I'm building...but only a little bit guilty.
 
Oil companies do want to maximise profit because the emphasis is on production at almost all costs. We do modifications and upgrades to platforms and we have to do it while they are on line and we have to plan for a shutdown to do the major stuff. The platform has to forcast how much oil it is going to make for that year and a target is set. If anything happens during that year where an unplaned shutdown has to happen it becomes a major issue. If while doing any work on the platform you trip the plant and it is down for more than about 20 mins you are in deep shit if you deviated from the planed proceedures as it becomes a financial issue.
The motto is safety first least that is the public face but it has always been production at all costs.
 

Jack Houpe

GT40s Supporter
Very well put Kirby, I agree 100%.

I can't stand the press and all the dummies that are being interviewed, one woman this morning said if this had happen in BPs backyard it would be cleaned up by now. ???? WTF

I say lets all move to the LA coast so we can retire early of BPs money they don't give a crap about.
 

Kirby Schrader

They're mostly silver
Lifetime Supporter
The 'press'... Right.... the so called 'mainstream media' which started my rant at the beginning of this thread.

What would it take to have honest news reporting instead of opinion after opinion after opinion? Oh wait... that doesn't sell. We, the people, like the hype and the nonfactual BS that gets thrown around.

Sigh....

Everyone is an 'expert' all of the sudden in one of the most high tech industries on the planet. 'just plug the damned hole' has to be one of the most inane comments to ever come out of a government official's mouth.

The 'hole' is a mile under water!!!! Jeeeezzzzz....

OK, I'm down off my soapbox now... time to get some work done on some technology which will make it more economical to get the oil out of the ground _and_ recover more of the reserves that are there.

How many people realize that on average an oil company gets around 30% of the oil in place out of the ground? The rest stays there for eternity unless you implement very expensive secondary and tertiary recovery methods. But the price of oil doesn't warrant that because these methods are non-economical in most places...

Later,
Kirby



Very well put Kirby, I agree 100%.

I can't stand the press and all the dummies that are being interviewed, one woman this morning said if this had happen in BPs backyard it would be cleaned up by now. ???? WTF

I say lets all move to the LA coast so we can retire early of BPs money they don't give a crap about.
 
+1 Kirby. My wife spent 12 years in the O&G industry. There are no secrets, just men digging a well as best they can to supply the resources the world demands. Are there mistakes, you bet! Digging a hole in the ground a mile or more deep trying to hit a target that is at best a few meters across so that the results are worth it is magical when it works and an expensive hole in the ground when it doesn't. It seems that BP got the location right, they just dropped the ball on their oversight of well procedures. If the statements that we have heard from some of the survivors is correct, there will be hell to pay for the bloke or committee that made some pretty dumb decisions. She has seen it happen time and again.
garry
 

Kirby Schrader

They're mostly silver
Lifetime Supporter
A mile deep, in this case, is just the water depth.

The Deepwater Horizon, on the previous well, set a world's record for well depth. 35,050 feet TVD. That well was 6.64 miles deep!

And yes, it's people again and people make mistakes.

If there is anything good that comes out of this, it is as you say... they hit the right spot with this exploration well. The reservoir is a good one.

I was in Macao for an SPE forum years ago and the husband of one of the attendees was there and ended up making a presentation since lots of people left due to a super typhoon heading our way.... He was an Air Force test pilot and consultant and he said after listening to us for 4 days, he claimed everything we did was witchcraft and black magic. How could we work with something we can never see, never touch or never find out if we were really correct in our assumptions?

FWIW,
Kirby



+1 Kirby. My wife spent 12 years in the O&G industry. There are no secrets, just men digging a well as best they can to supply the resources the world demands. Are there mistakes, you bet! Digging a hole in the ground a mile or more deep trying to hit a target that is at best a few meters across so that the results are worth it is magical when it works and an expensive hole in the ground when it doesn't. It seems that BP got the location right, they just dropped the ball on their oversight of well procedures. If the statements that we have heard from some of the survivors is correct, there will be hell to pay for the bloke or committee that made some pretty dumb decisions. She has seen it happen time and again.
garry
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Everyday, during my work, i travel across the east of my country. It is peppered with the remains of airfields, from which, during World War 2, your 8th Army Airforce operated. When i come across a new one, about 3 a week, i stop and read the memorial plate. I may be a sad ass, but most often, it brings a lump to my throat. The ultimate sacrifrice given by very young men, who up until they crossed the Atlantic ocean, probably had never left the state they were born it. Some of you will know that my own Father flew two tours of duty over Germany, at night. You Americans were a little luckier, you could go home after completing one tour of duty.
In Afghanistan, we compose the largest contingent after yourselves. Indeed, i believe that we contribute more than the rest of the other European nations combined.
Maybe i'm deluded, but here, it is often said that we have a ' Special Relationship ' with America. We like to think so.
I felt sorely let down by George Bush, but this new one takes the biscuit.
He never misses an opportunity to insult Britain. He refers on camera to BP as ' British Petroleum ' . BP is a multinational company. When the oil spill occurred in Alaska by the Valdez, our media did not keep saying ' American Exxon ' !! His suggestion that BP does not pay a dividend this year is hilarious. 40% of BP shareholders are American citizens !!"!
And while we are talking about this, lets not forget a few small pertinent facts.
The oil rig involved was built by an American company.
The oil rig was staffed and operated by an American company.
The undersea pipline was installed by an American company.
The safety and risk procedures were drawn up by an American company.
The safety and risk and remedial procedures were passed by an American government department.
The first action this President took when taking office, was to change the curtains in the Oval Office. The second action he took was highly offensive and insulting to my country. He returned a bronze bust of Winston Churchill, without explanation, which was a gift from Winston Churchill, to the people of your country. It was not his to return, however, he took it upon himself to do this deed.
This man(?) has learnt nothing from the privelages of education and contact afforded to him. Is he just another example of a cliqued privileged black man with an enormous and unremoveable chip on his shoulder ?
What ever his agenda, he stinks !
Or is this just pathetic , childish posturing for the mid term elections ?
 
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+1 Andy. My apologies for the insults that BO has insinuated to the great people of Great Britain. There will always be a special relationship between the US and GB. We have more in common than we have in differences.
Garry
 
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