Healthcare

On the WSJ article, there are some things that aren't known that prompted the things mentioned in the article. One is that the insurance industry is so regulated that they can't go across state lines. There are 1300 insurance companys in the U S. Given that , the ones that are the largest in the state are the ones that can and do act like monopolys and can get away with offering what ever they want. Thus no pre existing stuff, etc. All you have to do is look at the telephone industry. For years they trudged along and every once and a while you got a new product. In the 50s and 60s you had one phone and one phone only. black. Then came push buttons. The only new phone at the time was the "princess phone". With competition, in the 80 onward look at what was done with phones. cell phones, towers, video phones, smart phones, connection to the internet, the internet itself, 1,2,3 and now 4-G networks. What I am getting to is with competition in the free market, you will get lowered cost and more benefits. As long as they are kept secret and regulated, you will get what you get. Nothing new.
People should have choices of what they want in the line of insurance. You decide what coverage you want or what you want to pay. Kowing full well that if you don't choose the coverage and it happen, you are the one who will pay. If you are healthy, you should be able to have high deductable, low premiums.
Insurance companys are in business to make a profit, but if they are arrogant and non responsive, you should have the right to change companys. Your wallet will set the market place. When the big companys start losing customers, they will enter the competition. Until that happens, they are content to stay on the sidelines and keep their hands in your pocket.
Quite frankly I am surprised the insurance industry is not up in arms over this mess. When we have a single payer, who doesn't have a bottom line to feed, they can lower their premiums to any level they want, and if they tax the "wealthy" programs, the employers will see that it isn't in their interest to provide a plan. They will drop them and you can join the gov. program. This will eventually drive out any competition in the market place and then they will start cutting cost by not offering or telling you what you can and can't have as far as coverage or treatment. You are back to the big monopoly again.
And when the insurance industry goes belly up, guess who will step in to save or bail them out? Now you will be out the money for the premiums, and the bail out money, not to mention the lack of treatment options.
We haven't even begun talking about what the cost of this fiasco will be. If the prescription drug program is any indication:
300Billion for the proposed cost during debate,
400 Billion by the end of the debate,
600 Billion before the ink was dry on the legislation,
900 Billion by the end of the first year.
That is 300%.
And we are starting off with how much cost???? 1.5 or 1.8 TRILLION
It isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Has any one of you thought of where this is leading. With an annual deficit of a trillion or so dollars EVERY year, do you think the Chinese are going to keep holding our notes?? The system will eventually colapse under its own weight and we will probaly, more than likely, have a world wide depression. I know that sounds drastic, but look at the financial markets at some of the benchmarks. Where are they headed?

Another thing to ponder. With the government taking over the healthcare industry, the big insurance companys, the automobile companys, the banking industry etc., they will be incontrol of more than 50 % of the U S ecconomyand GDP. It is beginning to look like something other than a democracy.

Obama ran on a platform that was a little left of center or moderate. He has governed from the far left. I would suggest that people stop listening to what he says and start looking at what he is doing. Remember, we are just barely over the first 100 days of his presidency. We have a long way to go with this guy, even if they lose thier majority in 2010. Once a beaurocratic policy is in place, it is next to impossible to turn it around.

You may not agree with what I am saying, but you would be wise to look in other areas to get your answers to these problems. I have said and will say it again, if your political party is on top and you want to know what YOUR political party is up to, listen to what other countrys and the oposition are saying about you. If there is a problem with the insurance industry, why not change the regulations or laws concerning them. Why do we have to take over the industry to correct it???
Enough of this rant. I am sure I will hear hot post on this one.
The important thing is to keep talking about these problems and put out ideas that are plausable solutions. The media has made this president, are obliged to cover him, and show only his side, and make sure he is a success(whatever that is). That is why you don't see any of these ideas being covered by the main stream media. It is probably why their followings are dwindling so badly. I have in previous post given some alternative view points. Some good, some so so. But you are being presented with different ideas from me and others here on thes forum. LISTEN, THINKK and DECIDE for yourself. then ask your neighbor what he thinks aboout it!
 
Couldn't agree with you more Bill.

The good news is that it appears people are waking up and getting really angry with this guys agenda. If that continues and some sense is returned to our government because of it, then this first 100 days was worth it. I am not suggesting that the republican agenda is any better though, and I am not holding my breath that this administration will turn it's position around. It's gonna be a long 3 1/2 years. For all I know the next 50 years or so will be worse in this country. Not looking forward to our overblown, overbearing government and the required actions to correct it.
 
My understanding is that they haven't signed any healthcare bill into law...several proposals are on the table. If you know different, then please correct me.

This is the legislative process in action - not the final result yet. BO is not dictating the proposals - that is being done by your congress-folks. To make sweeping generalizations about the administration seems like just that.

What seems to get people riled up is our media hogs. You know which ones - the ones that change positions depending on what get them moreratings numbers. Here are transcipts of one such person - note the major flip flop:


"June 4, 2009
... already has the best health care in the world. We DO take care of our sick.

May 12
You're about to lose the best health care system in the world

April 29
What does it mean for the rest of the world if we lose our position as the innovator as having the best health care in the country...in the world?

======

January 2008
...I'm home and I'm recovering from some some uh some surgery that was scheduled and went uh horribly awry. It was one of the most eye-opening experiences of my life to receive healthcare in the US. This is one of the hospitals where the President of GE is going. If they don't care about the President of GE, do you think that they care about, y'know, schlubs that are average working stiffs?

=====

January 7, 2008
No matter how much the health care system would try to keep me down...I'M BACK.

...person voyage through the nightmare that is our health care system.

...We seem to be, Regina, a society or system now in health care that is just trying to shove the patients out that door as fast as they can.

..Getting well in this country can actually, almost kill you."

This crap makes me ill - because people watch this person without looking into their motivations.
 
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Mike,
Do you think for a minute the Dems are going to give up on their HOLY GRAIL legislation. Harry Reid reported the other day that they will pass this legislation by "any legislative means necessary". Now we all know from the last election that the Dems got a filibuster proof Senate and a majority in the House. So you would think they could pass this stuff without any help from the Repubs. Not so. there are too many Young Dems up for reelection in 2010. A congressmans 1st obligation and responsibility is to get reelected. With the town hall meetings blowing up in their faces and every poll there is out there showing that the American people don't trust the gov. and in one poll, FEAR the government more than they do the legislation(Fla.).
So Reid et al are proposing what is known as the NUCLEAR OPTION. This is a prcedural option that allows for the Senate to get aound the CLOTURE RULE(require 60 votes to break a filibuster) that will allow a vote without the required 60 votes to pass legislation or stop a filibuster and require a simple majority(lookup reconcilliation). All they need is 50 votes. With Byrd and Kennedy out due to illness, it becomes even more precarious. I am not going to go into detail here except to let you know, that the Dems are going to ram this legislation down our throats even if we the people don't want it. This is going to start a firestorm if the polls are cortrect. More than 50% in ALL polls show everything from BO popularity(read negative aproval rating), don't think the stimulus is working, handling of Afganistan, think the health care reform bill is bad, or any other topic you can think of.
If you haven't noticed, BO is not running the show. He and his telepromter are just echoing what needs to be said. It is Harry Reed, Nancy Pelosi, Dick Durbin and gay Chucky boy Shummer doing most of the real work.
I believe the American public IS waking up. I just don't know that it will matter in the end because the damage will have been done.


Stop the presses. Here is the latest bit of info. Harry Reed has asked/demanded the executives of all the major insurance companys(because they opose Obamacare) to reveal all the executives who made more than $1M. All ouside meetings and expenses and a lot more. He has told the IRS to investigate these goings on. This is reminisent of the Nixon whitehouse investigating their enemys list, which by the way the Dems said is an impeachable offense.
These guys are going after everything they can think of to denegrate those that opose them. From simple name calling to now getting them investigated to find some "dirt" to throw aginst the wall, hoping it will stick and take the focus off them and make thier efforts look better in the eyes of the public. Congress' aproval rating is in the single digits.... Don't think this will help. There is so much infighting in the Democratic party, its hard to tell which fight is better to watch. Last weekend it was the withdrawal of the public option(HEW Secretary), to its just a sliver of the legislation(BO), to its the centerpiece of the legislation(BO again), to 100 Dem legislators won't vote for it unless it is in the bill. Who would have thought that the standing room only event of the summer would have been town hall meetings about healthcare!!
I still agree that the system needs fixing, but I also think that no legislation is better than bad legislation.
If you want some real info, go here:
DickMorris.com
Dick Morris was the Carl Rove of the Clinton administration. He can give you an insiders look at what is going on in Washinton. He like anyone inside the Beltway has skeletons in his closet. But his insite is spot on.
 
Bill, I appreciate your comments. I have found it interesting that the insurance that I have had for my family was $300 per month for catastrophic. My employee just checked out full coverage with 1000 deductable, 70/30. $211 per month with group health. My insurance guy said that the insurance companies are scared that they will not be able to have any new clients and are trying to get whomever they can while they can.

Everyone talkes about how expensive healthcare is with out asking why. Some ideas that I have is that for me insurance is for big things. Like car insurance, why don't people charge their insurance companies for new tires, oil changes etc... Others may want to think about healthcare the same way. Another thought is the doctors insurance is expensive with one cause being punitive damages for mistakes. I think that mistakes do happen, but why turn it into the lottery? And of course, competition is always healthy as noted above.

This is a hot debate because it is so personal for so many people. People have forgotten that healthcare is not a right as ob has said in the debates, it is a luxury.
 
"People have forgotten that healthcare is not a right as ob has said in the debates, it is a luxury."

Says who?

IMSA
 
The Country's Founding Fathers.......... perhaps?????

Really?



Ask Thomas Jefferson...

"all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."


The primary purpose of medical care is to preserve LIFE.

IMSA
 

Gregg

Gregg
Lifetime Supporter
Really?



Ask Thomas Jefferson...

"all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that amongst these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."


The primary purpose of medical care is to preserve LIFE.

IMSA

Really?? You have a nice interpretation of what Jefferson said. He did not use the word healthcare or medical coverage though did he?

I think Dr. Kevorkian would beg to differ. How do you reconcile the right to an abortion then? Or continuing on your train of thought, food and water are necessary to "preserve LIFE" so now everyone is entitled to free food and water. You also need shelter from the elements. So now everyone gets a home. Oh wait, didn't we just try that. Look how well that turned out.
 
"Really?? You have a nice interpretation of what Jefferson said. He did not use the word healthcare or medical coverage though did he?"

Then you can perhaps show me where the Founding Fathers said health care was a luxury.

And what does Kevorkion and abortion have to do with the argument. Ever hear of food stamps?

Thought not

IMSA
 
"Really?? You have a nice interpretation of what Jefferson said. He did not use the word healthcare or medical coverage though did he?"

Then you can perhaps show me where the Founding Fathers said health care was a luxury.

And what does Kevorkion and abortion have to do with the argument. Ever hear of food stamps?

Thought not

IMSA

I don't believe that they EVER mentioned healthcare! Just because we live in the US does not mean that we are ENTITLED to anything without putting forth effort to obtain it! I believe that is called WORK, and if you work at a job and pay for things then you are able to have them! Maybe the government should be responsible for life insurance so when we die our heirs are taken care of. Hell, they might as well take care of car insurance also to take care of the new cars from cash for clunkers. I wonder how long it's going to be before the cars get repossessed? Subprime on a small scale.
 
"Really?? You have a nice interpretation of what Jefferson said. He did not use the word healthcare or medical coverage though did he?"

Then you can perhaps show me where the Founding Fathers said health care was a luxury.

And what does Kevorkion and abortion have to do with the argument. Ever hear of food stamps?

Thought not

IMSA

Planned Parenthood is to get funds to pay for abortions among other things in the proposed bill. What the hell do food stamps have to do with anything?
 
Planned parenthood has been partly funded by the government for years so what's your point?

Getting back to health care, how do you solve the problem of those who are ineligible for health insurance due to preexisting conditions?

IMSA
 
Planned parenthood has been partly funded by the government for years so what's your point?

Getting back to health care, how do you solve the problem of those who are ineligible for health insurance due to preexisting conditions?

IMSA
IMSA, I live in AZ, I don't think that we are on the leading edge of healthcare, but we have a state run plan for those who can't afford health insurance, it's called AHCCCS. I think that all of the other states have something comparable. Anyone from the illegal alien to the person without a job is able to have healthcare at no cost. If someone has something preexisting and can't afford to pay, they need only to apply for help. Why doesn't the government help the states out with these plans and leave the people with the plans that they pay for and are happy with alone. Can you imagine the bionic scewup the government will cause with a project the size of national healthcare. Medicare and Social Security will be going in the shitter within the next 20 years, and we have donated thru taxes uncounted billions to these causes with the management of OUR money being bungled by the government. There is no reason that the Medicare and Social Security money should ever run out if it wasn't in a general fund and used improperly. They STOLE that money from us, it wasn't theirs to use! Sorry, I wouldn't trust them to do anything that big with all of the stuff in 1018 pages of the healthcare bill not to mention amendments!
 
And just where is funding coming from for AHCCCS? Looks to me like at least part of it is coming from the federal government.

State of Arizona Recovery and Reinvestment | Agencies

Here are some facts

# Economists have found that rising health care costs correlate with significant drops in health insurance coverage, and national surveys also show that the primary reason people are uninsured is due to the high and escalating cost of health insurance coverage.8

# A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance.9

# According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.10

# Without health care reform, small businesses will pay nearly $2.4 trillion dollars over the next ten years in health care costs for their workers, 178,000 small business jobs will be lost by 2018 as a result of health care costs, $834 billion in small business wages will be lost due to high health care costs over the next ten years, small businesses will lose $52.1 billion in profits to high health care costs and 1.6 million small business workers will suffer “job lock“— roughly one in 16 people currently insured by their employers.11

And some more here

NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs

IMSA
 
It wasn't hard to guess which post you were going to respond to. A little homophobic are we?

IMSA
 
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