Hello yall...

[John]

New to the forums and the whole idea of building a car. Have done some low budget restores years ago but haven't turned a wrench in quite a while.

Anyway really interested in the SLC and spoke with Fran today. Very responsive! I looked at the Ultima and the Factory Five (particularly the latter) cars but both seemed lacking.

Thinking about taking a trip up to Detroit to check out the shop and the car.

Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. It seems many different opinions on drivetrains but I like the LS7 idea. I plan on driving the car quite a bit, not daily but probably several times a week so needs to be reliable but obviously I want it to run as good as it looks and sounds.

I am in Baton Rouge, LA. Anyone in my neck of the woods?

 

[Jack]

Welcome to the forum John! The LS7 is a good choice for the SL-C. My preference would be the LS3 for less $$ and with a simple cam change will equal the stock LS7.

IMO the Ultima is very dated. The FF GTM is REALLY lacking in many areas. Poor fiberglass, chassis could be MUCH better, etc. This is basically what convinced me to build the SL-C. Anyway, have fun!

Please do visit RCR and Fran. Worth the trip.

 

[John]

Thanks, it seems nothing much has happened with the Ultima over the years and the FF car lust was not the quality I am interested in.

Fran also thought the LS3 was the big bang for the buck and no dry sump issue. What type of mods are needed to break the 500 mark and where are people getting their motors?

 

[Doc Kaler]

Hello John and Welcome!

Take a look at the build logs, etc. We have a pretty good "network" of SL-C owners with plenty of email activity as well as forum activity.

I using the LS7 but really any LS series applies (except for the dry sump stuff). FYI, I have a G50.50 complete setup in the for sale site if that's the route you want to go.

 

[Dave Lindemann]

Welcome John! Definitely make the trip to Detroit - the shop is a car guys' dream. Fran always has some interesting projects in the works and seeing the SLC in person will seal the deal. Fran is also a great person to deal with, very responsive and patient with questions.

Personally, I never really considered the FF though I did look into the Ultima. The Ultima is a proven design that can be built into a very fast car but the design is somewhat dated and the chassis, body design, and interior can't compare to the SLC IMO. You can't really go wrong with any of the LS engines. I'm biased but I went with the LS3. Check with Fran about an engine - he may be able to help source one for you.

Good luck and have fun!
Dave L

 

[Alex]

If you're starting from scratch for an engine, an LS3 will be a better buy, both in terms of potential, parts used, and overall cost, over the LS7. (atleast based on everything I determined from my research)

If you're a crazy SOB like me, you can look into a sleeved, built LS2 - 800hp; 6000RPM (so no silly needing to wind it up to 8000RPM to make it). I don't think (but don't quote me on this) they make sleeves for LS3s, and it's just silly to sleeve an LS7 (in terms of cost) unless you have it sitting right there in front of you (as you'll end up at the same place as the LS2, except $3-4k poorer)

In terms of the car, it's a great piece of art. Based on your post, here's my comments, take them for what they're worth, and remember that I'm VERY UNskilled in terms of automotives. It takes me 6hrs to chagne the brake pads on my Z06, on a 4post lift even, and if I don't strip the drain plug when changing my oil I'm estatic! The things some of the other member on here can do, mechanically, is insane, so I'm the ........... special .......... person in the group, haha.

If I hadn't built my FFR 65 cobra before this, there's no way I'd have been able to do this project - it's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, but it does require some skill and foresight that you gain from having done a project like this before. Basically you need atleast 2 of the 3 - skill, time, money. I lack skill, but I can afford to throw oodles of money at it and spend 8hrs a day working on it (I've spent roughly 600hrs with it already, between the hard (doing) aspects and the soft (thinking/researching) aspects) and enjoying it, so I'll get 'er done. ... and again, remember, this is from the perspective of somebody with virtually no automotive talent; ymmv.

These (component cars) arn't the type of vehicles you (atleast I) don't want to drive everyday - they're raw, brutal, fast as get out and relatively unsafe, but oooooooh so much fun. But still, they're very physically and mentally draining to drive. Fun, yes, but not something I'd want to drive several days a week. These types of cars make my Viper seem like a great daily driver. ...With my cobra (640hp; 2120lbs; straight through exhaust), once a week is more than enough to enjoy it, anymore becomes tedious.

And reliability depends solely on your build skill and the parts you use. Fran has a solid chassis, but it's up to you to make certain you don't kill yourself. With an OEM car, it's unlikely that you'll find your drive axle thingie can flying out infront of you while you're driving; here, if you forget to torque one side to 118ft-lbs+double nut +blue loctite, well, enjoy seeing it ahead of you, and you've got noone but yourself to blame And even if you're super duper anal and triple check everything, you'll find a lot of surprises along the way. For example, in the first 1400miles on my cobra I replaced my racing radiator 3 times - and each time it had absolutely nothing to do with anything I did (manufacturer defect); heck, I went through 12 starters before I got a working one!

So, in conclusion, it's not a hobby (due to time and $$$) to take lightly, but it is well worth it if you have the interest.

And, of course, ultima bad. Factory Five baaaad. RCR gooooood :thumbsup:

 

[Alex]

Oh yea, from everything I've seen and thought of, dollar wise you're going to end up in the similar ballpark between ultima vs rcr vs ffr. The difference is RCR quality is light-years ahead of ultima (both the frame and overall visual appeal imho) and, well, to say RCR is lightyears ahead of FFR would be an insult to RCR! (I don't know what's better than lightyears so I can't add it in there, haha!)

JIncase you arn't aware and have only studied FFR's literature, you are not going to be able to build a GTM for $40k and 300hrs of labor. (you wouldn't believe how many people I talk to who quite honestly believe they can build an LS7 GTM for $40k and only a few hundred hours; completely painted/bodywork/etc.... )

 

[Graham]

Hi,

I don't have an SLC, but I do have an RCR GT40 Mk1. I just want to echo what Alex has said. These are not kit cars where you place part A to part B, turn a screw and you're done. These are complex kits where you will need to start drilling / bashing / making large holes in the chassis / thinking / thinking / thinking / doing....

I actually don't know of a better quality set of components or chassis though. The build quality REALLY is that good, and I have never once wondered if I have made the right decision.

Also, like Alex, my engineering skills are negligable, and I am learning on the fly. Arguably, this is an expensive thing to learn on, but it's my personal Everest and I will reach the summit (even if I need a stairlift )...

If you want a replica or a component car (I hate the term Kit Car, it is SOOOOO 1980's), then go and visit Fran. Be prepared to take your cheque book though, as you probably won't walk away without placing an order :thumbsup:

Graham.

 

[John]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am pretty mechanically inclined, just a little rusty. What I lack more than anything is experience with a "replica" car. I do have a little bit (or maybe a lot if) "I can do anything attitude", which is a good/bad thing.

How are the manuals and instructions for the SLC. Between the web and the supplied materials can you get a pretty good idea about the details of the build. I did find several blogs on Ultima builds with pictures but not much on the SLC so far.

 

[Jack]

As Doc Kaler mentioned in his post, we SL-C guy's are a tight bunch and frequently share ideas and methods. The SL-C build is pretty straight forward and when sticking to the RCR "recipe" a person with reasonable mechanical skills and a bit of common sense will have little problem. Because of the nature of the beast, several of us are "doing our own thing" and consequently adding to the build a bit outside the box. Keep in mind that our "SL-C group" is here to assist. The SL-C is jewlery, I'm still over the moon!

 

[Doc Kaler]

Hi John,

Thus far, there is no build manual to refer to. But my understanding is that there is one being developed.

Understand that the SL-C is a relatively new product with less than 40 out there under varying states of finish. As you can glean from this forum, we all have varying ideas of how to complete our builds (which is good and healthy for the "evolution" of this species). We all probably looked at the Ultima and the FFR GTM and for our own reasons (some mentioned here) we chose this platform. That's not to say an Ultima or GTM are "bad" cars, just different and presenting with different challenges along the way to completion. As others have said, you will likely end up spending similar amounts to complete.

So far, there have been no insurmountable tasks in my build despite the lack of a build manual (indeed, there are a myriad of posts on the FFR site bemoaning their GTM build manual). It's almost "fun" from my perspective to improvise and marvel at my humble accomplishments!

 

[John]

Since the car comes as a rolling chasis can someone give me a summary of my build duties other than engine and tranny install?

Does the rear end come in he car and if so ratio? If not what are people using?

 

[Randy V]

Since the car comes as a rolling chasis can someone give me a summary of my build duties other than engine and tranny install?

Does the rear end come in he car and if so ratio? If not what are people using?

Rear end? If you're looking at an SL-C, the Rear-End is integrated into the Transaxle..

Your build duties would depend upon what level of preparation you purchase the car at...

 

[Jack Duha]

The transmission is the "rear end".

Jack

 

[Doc Kaler]

John,

You do have rear suspension hung, ie., the car will roll (just no half-shafts or transaxle installed unless you order it that way). If you look at my first photos in my log I am off-loading my roller without transmission/half shafts.

 

[Doc Kaler]

John,

To answer your second query: You can use any transaxle that "fits" and has an adapter. However, the original design has a Ricardo transaxle and the remainder of builds use a Porsche inverted transaxle.

 

[Alex]

Since the car comes as a rolling chasis can someone give me a summary of my build duties other than engine and tranny install?

Does the rear end come in he car and if so ratio? If not what are people using?

Transaxle is like a 2 in 1 unit if you will - tranny and rear end bundled as one. Most popular choices are a G50.X unit or a Riccardo. Most will go with the Riccardo because it's built to handle oodles of V8 and is stronger than a G50.X ; also the chassis and components being developed (e.g., exhaust) seem to be more suited towards the LS(x)/Riccardo package than others.

As for build duties - everything (wasn't that helpful :laugh: )

It comes as a roller, meaning the suspension is hung on place, and that's it. You'll, more than likely, end up removing it to get to the brackets to have them powdercoated, then re-install and tighten everything.

So in terms of the assembly, mechanically, it's like a factory five - the main difference being ffr gives you a bare frame and suspension components in a box; here RCR puts them on the car so you can see how they go together.

Also, unlike ffr you can get Fran to customize your stuff if you ask nicely - I had him chop my rear firewall in half and make it splittable/removeable.

Oh, and the body is 1000x better than most models out there. With my ffr, the body was, well, crap. It cost me $14k to get it to paint ready. One of the worst bodies my guy had seen. Horrible fitments everywhere, absolutely horrible. And huge ridge lines everywhere so it was embarassing to drive around pre-paint.

WIth the SLC, the mold lines were very minute. Knocked them down with 1000/1500/2000/3000 grit and polished and it's as good as paint. I'll probably run in gelcoat for quite some time before going to paint it's that good. For example, here's how it looks polished:

 

[Howard Jones]

Take some good advice and spend a couple of days visiting Fran. Ask all your questions there and then deside how to proceed.

You may want to have Fran assemble the body work for instance or mate up the gearbox and engine for you or some other portion of the build you don't want to do. The bottom line is go and see it, talk to Fran and think the project through with him. He's a good guy and more than willing to help.

These kind of cars are not rocket science but some things are more fun than others. Everybody will like certain steps more than other tasks. Having a frank dicussion with Fran will help you make a informed choice based on what YOU expect and want to do.

You can check out my build log "Howard Jones SLC24". I am sorta documenting the entire process, even the easy boring stuff, or drop me a PM and I will send you my Phone number. I am always willing to help as much as I can and really enjoy talking hot rods.

Anyway good luck and enjoy the hobbie part of this. Meeting new friends and learning new skills is most of the fun anyway. The car is a nice bonus.

 

[Jack]

IMHO the best combination would be the Ricardo gearbox with an LS3 (modded just a bit).
I totally agree with Howard's post. Visit Fran, ask questions and make a plan accordingly.

With regards of build difficulty, assuming reasonable skills, and to simplify the difficulty of the build, let's consider the Ultima, the FF GTM, GT40 (most) and the
SL-C. On a scale of 1-10 it would go like this:

Ultima 7
FF GTM 8
GT40 8
SL-C 6-7

Remember this is only my opinion. Others feel free to chime in here.

 

[John]

Rear end? If you're looking at an SL-C, the Rear-End is integrated into the Transaxle..

Your build duties would depend upon what level of preparation you purchase the car at...

Thanks and please excuse my ignorance. Not familiar with midegine car design.