Import charges for crate engine from US to UK

[Lee]

Can anyone tell me approx how much it will cost to import a crate engine through customs.
If I used this as an example (maybe not a good engine, but good website, OK for example purpose, lets not get into Chevy vs Ford argument) http://www.enginefactory.com/350_420hp.htm
$4875 for engine, plus Shipping charges they quote as about $350, but what I really want to find out is what will I be hit for import duty/ customs charges, how can I keep them as low as possible? I could collect myself from Docks or wherever. Has anyone imported an engine from US who can tell me how to keep the costs down. Thanks.

 

[Bill Bayard]

Lee,

I bought my 351 Windsor from the Engine Factory. It is an absolute screamer! Instant throttle response, very well put together!
Just thought you'd like to know of their work.

Bill

 

[Jos]

I don't know about import duty - maybe between 2 & 5 % - but clearance & devanning could be £ 200 plus UK inland delivery - and don't forget VAT - overall your $ 4800 motor will probably cost £ 4800 by the time you get it home - this is a good rule of thumb for almost anything brought from USA

 

[Roy Snook]

Lee,
I bought my ZF from the states and had to pay 10% import duty and 17.5% vat and shipping cost-BUT it is only relative to the "disclosed" value

 

[Frank Catt]

JP. The problem with importing an engine is that if you are going to use a non US flywheel, say a smaller unit to fit with the Renault box, you have got to start all over again, strip the engine entirely to get it balanced. This then starts getting expensive all over again. Of course, there are now available one piece bellhousings that will take a standard flywheel, but you may want to consider many things that will affect the way you finally go, for instance the weight and inertia of a large diameter flywheel as opposed to a smaller race flywheel and clutch etc. Think deep before you spend your money, BTW, good balancing is critical in a GT40, make sure your engine builder makes a good job of it. Frank

 

Lee,on the total invoice you will have to add
4.7% duty (if customs asked you about the engine it's not for a buisness but a hobby)
on that total you then add 17.5%VAT (engine,
carrage and duty)you could arrange to pick it up from customs.also monitor exchange rates, then order.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeDD:
Anyone offer a good explanation why the VAT
applies to goods purchased from out of the
country?

For most goods in the US, you do not pay sales tax on anything purchased out of your state, and certainly not out of country.

MikeDD<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a note of interest:
Purchases made across US state boundries do require that sales tax be paid. Until recently, unless the seller took the tax it was not pursued. With recent internet purchases mounting large amounts, ALL US state goveners have set up for sales tax to be collected. The system requires purchasers to send the tax in along with yearly income tax. So far I am the only person that I have met that has complied with this voluntary tax collection system.

I am a little curious as why inter-state sales tax does not run afoul of the BAN on inter-state tariffs?

 

[Steve Toner]

OK, so this is way off topic, but it's not legal for states to collect sales tax on out-of-state purchases, as I understand it. What they have tried to do is invoke a "use tax" on items brought in from out of state for which no sales tax was paid. Whether this would stand up to legal challenge, nobody seems to know. It sounds like an import duty to me, and I really don't think it's permitted for states to collect import duties. But I think that's why they don't push real hard on trying to collect these taxes - they really can't stand up to a challenge.

I could be wrong, of course... Consult an attorney before refusing to pay taxes or throwing tea in the harbor. Additional disclaimers apply...

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Toner ]

 

[David]

I have been informed that sales tax, at least in the State of Texas, is technically due from the purchaser. When the seller collects and pays the state, he is doing it under a fiduciary relationship, sort of like an employer and withheld federal income tax. If your employer doesn't withhold the income tax, that doesn't mean you don't owe it; it just means you have to poney up on April 15th.

If fact, I have heard of some states even attempting to summons records in order to determine if any of their residents purchased online and then are billing them!

Death and taxes

Dave Lowell

ps I have seen cases where the collecting of a sales tax by a state from out of state purchases has definately been upheld by the state and the federal courts - look at out of state vehicle purchases. They have you between a rock and a hard place because of registering the vehicle, but it is the state collecting sales tax on an out of state purchse. Now, at least in Texas, they give you credit for any non-Texas sales tax paid.

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Dave Lowell ]

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Dave Lowell ]

 

[Frank Catt]

Lee, it gets expensive! Add at least 27.5% on top of shipping charges for import charge and VAT, then inland delivery. Best build your engine in the UK.

 

[Mike Dozier]

Anyone offer a good explanation why the VAT
applies to goods purchased from out of the
country?

For most goods in the US, you do not pay sales tax on anything purchased out of your state, and certainly not out of country.

I wish we could skip the nonsense and ship
a boatload of engines over to the UK
in exchange for a boatload of GT40 parts!

MikeDD

 

[James]

Lee,

Go for it!! I'm bringing in an engine from the USA in the next month or so.

My business is directly related to shipping materials from all over the world. Importing from the USA is a piece of piss!

I'll talk with my freight company tomorrow and find out how much duty you'll need to pay. You will need to pay VAT @ 17.5%. Duty might be as low as 5%.

Get the Engine Factory to give you a price FOB(Freight on Board) to a U.K port. Felixstow being the most common. Doesn't really matter.

IMPORTANT: Get a freight co involved before you import. If you don't you will get really stung!! I'll post more tomorrow!

The engines in the USA are massively better value if you go to the right places. You'll nearly always find that the same spec engine here in the U.K will cost more, even after tax, duty, delivery etc.

Although I'd love to be proved wrong! Frank?

Regards,

J.P

 

[Bill Musarra]

Have any of you guys in England thought of bringing your engine into say......France or Spain and picking it up there? Don"t know if you can skirt the tax man that way or not. Use to be the way to bring cars into the U.S. was to bring them into Mexico or a central american country first and then come into the U.S. I'm sure I am leaving out a few facts but its something to think about.

Bill

 

[Mike Dozier]

One last note on inter-state taxes...

I have made hundreds of purchases out of state from mail order companies (Jegs, Summit, etc etc etc) and they NEVER charge
Sales tax.

I'm sure companies as large as these are abiding by the law, so I must assume that
other states that tax their residents when
making out of state purchases are doing so
on their own as a revenue device.
What a surprise.

MikeDD

 

Bill, I think that if the guys imported to France or Spain, the cost still applies to go and get your engine. Ferry crossings, Long drives, our fuel costs over here are still the highest. I'm pretty sure you'd end up the same costs or more than just getting it shipped right here. I will look into it though, there maybe mileage in it somewhere.

Although I like the sound of building a few GT's down in Spain in the Sun! Might go there when Ive grown tired of this countrys weather & tax systems! And Im sure im not alone either.... Mind you I may have to make my spider GT for that open top sun, sea and sangria feeling.

The one thing I dont not claim to be is an expert on building engines. I install them, make them run and all, but I rarely ever build one. However, I have just put my 351c back together for my new chassis. It is just to see if I can get all types of small block in the frame without issue. I have an original Pantera unit also for my lightweight pantera, which is being my attention at the moment. Though that is my own project. GT's come first.

Well I hope you guys resolve your local tax questions. And rest assured, you will never pay as much tax as we do over here.When the last person leave this country to the dogs, thats all it will be fit for. Sorry way to political!

All the best to all

Mark Sibley

 

Sorry guys I got off the beaten track there.

Lee, If you are using a Chevy, I have the adaptor plate to hook it up to Renault trans if you are considering it. We have supplied a few chevy versions as some GT guys used chevy as a cheaper hp route. The Lola t70 used to run chevy more commonly also. Wehen GTD did the T70 replica, We made the adaptor plate to supply that market. Not too many were supplied though.

If you're stuck or need further help and info, E mail me.

regards

Mark Sibley

 

[Lee]

Wow! Loads of really useful info. Thanks.
JP mentioned about talking to a (import)company first. Has anyone any recommendations. Is this something that you can actually do yourself? Are there just certain forms to be filled in, or do you have to use a company?
Roy mentioned the disclosed value? What does that mean? Who discloses the 'value'. Is that not the same as the invoice total?
Frank mentioned balancing. If the flywheel assembly (clutch etc) is balanced rotating, does the company building the bottom end just need to know the weight of the flywheel assembly and the distance of its C of G from the mating face of the crankshaft?
Richard mentioned about stating its use as a hobby rather than business. That implies different rates for different uses. Is 'hobby' the lowest possible rate?
Bill mentioned about using an alternate country as entry point to the EU and then transport it from there. I bought a grey import car (ex Japan) in Eire, and imported that to the UK, and enjoyed the experience. Has anyone done anything similar with an engine. My timeframe is such that I could combine it with a holiday, but what would the customs man at Dover or Holyhead have to say about the crate in my boot?
Thanks again
Lee

 

[Jos]

Lee - you could disguise your crate as 3200 cigarettes however I really do not think that you are going to find a legal effective way to not pay the VAT or the duty - building your car is going to cost you £ 40000 or whatever anyway so if you really want to risk jail to try to save less a few hundred pounds then I would suggest you cannot afford the project let alone the engine in the first place

 

[Guest]

Hi Lee

I imported my engine kit from the States about 11 years ago. Postage packing taxes etc cost as much as the engine parts did but then I got $1.99 to the £. Therefore cost in $ = cost in £ is a fair starting guestimate today. Allow for the fact that I had my engine flown over at more cost than shipping it over. PAW in California supplied all the bits I wanted and then a friend here built it for me. You will get more choice/options from buying in the States or you could do what Chris Melia did and combine a trip out there with your purchase.

The balancing issue is worth consideration as I don't think you can take the Ford flywheel off and work out the balance and copy it onto a new flywheel. Too much room for inaccuracy! So if you are going to combine a trip out, take your planned flywheel with you and leave it with the engine builder, or even post it out to them. Then it can be balanced with the engine as per normal. Clutch cover too.

I am sure MDA can supply a flywheel with a basic balance built in if you asked nicely. Roy Lane at Techcraft can supply an unbalanced steel flywheel too. He has always been the quickest at delivery but supplies unbalanced last I heard. I had one of these and they can be balanced but it does look quite radiacal or a bit like a Swiss cheese! It takes about a week from order through Roy Lane. The Essex V6 flywheel is the basic pattern used in the Renault bell housing set up and you may find one cheap(er?) lying about. DOn't forget to redrill first for your clutch cover before balancing etc.

Or get a bell housing designed to mate the Renault box to the Ford engine. Chris Cole at Mach One Transmissions did one and I think Andy Sheldon at Tornado also did one but not too sure on that piont. This option allows you to use Ford flywheel and clutch parts willy nilly.

However going back to building your engine in UK, you can still get the bits from US if Real Steel in Uxbridge don't have exactly what you want. Then get a builder here to do it for you.

I am about to have my engine rebuilt by Dave Milham based in Kent and he can be contaced directly on 01892 661245. He is a very good engine builder and is happy to deal direct with the customer. He is a V8 specialist and has, I beleive, done Robin's, Andrew's, Alex's, Martin's and Martin's engines amongst others. If you got the last GTD club mag you would have read about his mad wife Steph who drives as SHE DEVIL RACING and so far is up to 2500 bhp and 200mph plus quarter mile speeds, engines built by hubby Dave. You do not have to have the maddest engine possible, he will give you what you want with sensible advice about spec and what to expect from the finished product. He built my current engine in 1997 which is less than 350 bhp and has been very reliable and quick to date. in fact this is its first real problem its had and it was caused by me allowing a nut to get in the engine! Ooops!

He can also keep stum if you want your spec kept secret and will join in any wind up you care to mention, like engines revving to 9600rpm. Yup, he was one of those conspirational sods who stitched me up a kipper!

Hope this helps

Malcolm

 

[charles]

JP,
FOB means Free On Board at the loadport and does not include freight charges to the port of destination. If you buy basis FOB you will need to factor in freight and insurance costs to your calculations.

I think you're referring to to CIF/CFR trade terms when you mention a cost delivered to Felixstowe.

Sorry to get technical but the difference between the "cost" for different trade terms can be considerable.

If anyone's interested in further reading, try "Incoterms" published by the International Chamber of Commerce. A fascinating read !!

Hope this helps.

Charles

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: charles kergon ]