Julian Assange

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
An Australian citizen, interesting, I searched for my previous posts about this bloke but couldn't find anything. But I am sure I said something like hung drawn and quartered would be to good for him. He has now been granted Asylum by Ecuador. Britain is threatening to invade the Embassy if they do surely a declaration of war?... In the meantime Juliar sits on her hands.
 
I would imagine she is quite pleased not to be drawn into it.

To be honest, this is a complete cock up by the FCO. A gorilla could have handled, what is a delicate diplomatic situation, better.

And William Hague was doing so well, prat.
 

Keith

Moderator
Well, that's if you believe everything you read in the press. I do not believe that the Govt mishandled anything. They are responding (as we all have to) to the Rule of Law in this country.

This case went to the High Court twice and twice the Judges ruled that there was a case to answer in Sweden for Mr Assange, and said that the extradition was legal and proper.

The supporters of Mr Assange, if you look closely are the same rent-a-crew you will find at almost any incident where HM Govt stands to get egg on face win or lose.

The fact that Mr Assange has fooled everyone into thinking that the British Govt are bending over backwards to please the USA, means to suggest that HMG are not bound by the rule of Law and are taking this action to appease an ally. What nonsense!

Assange took refuge in a 'friendly' Embassy, and despite the hostile act of granting asylum, HMG were obliged to point out To Ecuador that Assange would be arrested as soon as he stepped on any British Sovereign Territory (i.e. the pavement) and that if it was deemed necessary, their diplomatic status could be revoked.

I fail to see what else they could have done, given that it was a fait accompli and an unfriendly act on behalf by the Ecuadorians.

The press are having a feeding frenzy over this snidey git who's actions have put more people at risk in sensitive regions than almost anyone else in the history of Government Communications..

Did he change the world? Was it worth the weight in newsprint?

I think not.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Pete, this situation interests me, too.

As an American, I believe in freedom of speech, and particularly when it reveals any indefensible action by our government.

His right to reveal identities of our covert agents, however, stops where their nose starts, so to speak.

However, he's not being sought by the authorities for those actions, he's being sought on a morals conviction, right?

I could see how this man, who is quite wealthy, could hire a helicopter to hover over the Ecuadorian Embassy and lift him into the cockpit with a rope ladder, then whisk him off beyond the reach of the long arm of the British law. He could probably engineer a myriad of escape techniques...so, the issue is not one of whether he will escape, IMHO, it is one of when and how.

My question is "Do the British have something to prove?" If I am correct, when an individual is granted assylum in another country, efforts to capture him aren't necessarily stepped up, the usual response is to carry on, keep a stiff upper lip, and if and when the individual in captured again, even perhaps as a result of something simple such as a traffic infraction, notify the government of the country that is seeking the extradition that they can pick up the detainee.

I'm intrigued by the vigor with which the British are pursuing this guy...no doubt his notoriety has something to do with it, but what are they trying to prove?

I ask this sincerely...I am not aware of the standard practices of the British in this matter, just the way I see things happening in our part of the world (and, for God's SAKE, don't expect our despicable neighbors to the south to attempt to help us when we want to extradite someone :thumbsdown: ).

Keith....Jon....Pete....help me learn more about what's going on, please!

Cheers!

Doug
 

Keith

Moderator
Doug, take the emotion out of this. The High Court in Britain decided on no less than TWO occasions in a Court of Law in London, that Julian Assange had a case to answer in Sweden and therefore they duly legalised the act of Extradition to Sweden. If it had gone the other way, be assured that this feller would have walked the walk free & clear.

Now, take a leap of faith here and understand that our esteemed Judiciary are usually most Liberal in their Judgements and that they would rather stab themselves in they eye with a runcible spoon than kow tow to the British Government. In my opinion, this provides the right balance in our democracy.

Whatever anyone wants to 'read' into this, this is purely a matter of the Courts attempting to execute the Judgement - that Julian Assange should be extradited to Sweden to answer certain charges.

There are not many people in the world that have had the benefit of such process, nor would they have access to the large sums of money that have been thrown at this man's defence.

This is absolutely NOTHING to do with 'freedom of speech' . This is a matter of LAW.

To suggest any thing else is to suggest that our Judiciary is in the pay of HMG. A completely ludicrous notion.

Try to stop listening to the chattering classes and understand what's really going on here.

Right, I done that. Now. Do you think it right to expose every dirty little thing that your Govt does to protect your national interest?

If you say yes Doug, then you must be totally naive mate, sorry. The fact is that the citizens do not really want to know - they just want a strong Govt to do it for them. It is actually suffice to have a knowledge and keep tabs on them, so that your State Dept know how far they can push the envelope.

There are far too many 'new' enemies out there looking to bring us all down, and in some ways, I can empathise with their reasons.

If you pay any note or homage to this little shit Assange, who's actions will never ever change the way Govts do things given the increasing pressures on our very existence, then you are in danger of handing your enemies an easy, 'own goal' type victory.

Sorry guys, but this turd never did anything worthwhile, ever.
 
An opportunist who extracted as much as he could get from acting as he did. Courts are Courts and the LAW is the Law. Period.

Step outside this and anarchy reigns supreme. As keith more aptly put, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
 
I would agree with what has been said. This is not about freedom of speech, it's about the law. And he should be sent to Sweeden to face questioning.

However, where I take issue is in the way this has been handled by the FCO. To effectively threaten to raid someone's embassy, in contravention of the Vienna Accord, just to get this twat, was completely stupid. Even the Iranans had the good grace to pretend it was some sort of mob, and not their police force that raided the British embassy in Terhan.

All that's happened is Equidor are now well pissed off, and it's front page news. So to stick two fingers up to the British, they grant him political asylum. Couldn't see that coming.

This has got out of hand now, and everyone needs to calm down.
 

Keith

Moderator
The longer it went on - the more likely they were to grant him asylum. All they wanted was a trigger. As it happened, they got it when HMG sent a Note outlining HMG options including the revocation of diplomatic status which is an option for any government anywhere if a crime is being concealed using the diplomatic process.

Granting Assange asylum is in breach of diplomatic etiquette as they are shielding him from due process of the Law of Great Britain. He had his chances in court. Sweden has a great record in Human Rights so why is he afraid to go back there?

It is Sweden that requested his extradition to answer criminal charges. Assange just happened to be in Britain as he knew he would receive more just treatment in the UK. He is just a snivelling little turd who has all the morals of a rutting goat.

Another clue is the sense of unease back in Ecuador over the actions of their diplomatic staff. It appears they have no love for Assange either and would be happier if he "disappeared". From recent history, we know that South American governments are quite good at that.
 
You know I don't think I have ever felt less a part of this forum than I do right now. So much to say, so little point.

Wow. 8(


Tim
 
How will Assange justify stiffing those friends who provided surety for his bail? He has broken the bail conditions and the monies are now forfeit. What a guy!
 

Keith

Moderator
You know I don't think I have ever felt less a part of this forum than I do right now. So much to say, so little point.

Wow. 8(


Tim

Why? Because people post things that don't necessarily dovetail with your world view?

Little point? You give up far too easy my friend..

Say on... say on....
 

Keith

Moderator
How 'concerned' was he that he and his crowd literally 'dumped' millions of emails into the public domain with just a summary glance at the content. He surely would have gained more credibility if Wikileaks had trawled through the mass of info and targeted certain governments for malpractice that would have been in the public interest.

Nothing much has been made of these 'leaks' and even journalists have not been able to find much except diplomatic name calling, which is hardly new or news.

But by ramping up the ante in a propagandist strategy, he and his ilk have conned a good proportion of the world community into believing that this was a benign gesture.

Be honest,this man is a liar & a coward. What better way to achieve immortality than to allow himself to be extradited to Sweden, answer the charges (and if we are to believe the media, there are none that will stick) and then resist attempts to extradite him back to the USA. There is only one thing wrong with that scenario and it doesn't even matter whether he was guilty of the charges or no. It is likely that the USA are not the slightest bit interested in him, and that being the case, this would be a non story.

As it is, through innuendo, he has achieved a similar result by allowing the UK and Ecuador to become unwitting victims in his quest for publicity, which is reasonably unforgivable in that the UK gave him the benefit of due process of Law that he may not have enjoyed in many other countries.

A cynical manipulation, and he is a 'freedom fighter?'

The result of all this mess will be - guess what. A tightening of Government procedures, knowledge going underground and the 'People' being more in the dark than ever before.

THAT is the true legacy of Assange.
 
I know a lynch mob when I see one. ;p
If you saw footage of that embassy and didn't see something wrong then I won't be able to point it out to you.

I don't see the point of getting into this discussion here. Hard feelings will be generated and things will be said that can't be unsaid. Better to just let the world go bad and wait until its my turn to leave.

I'd rather remain friends and agree to disagree when none of us has any power to change anything and what you and I think no longer matters.

-If all you see around you is lynch mob, pray that there is someone among them that has the sense to stop, look, listen and consider.

-In a room full of deaf people shouting there is no point trying to speak.

There are an awful lot of deaf screamers in this forum. So there ;p

Seeya on the other side.. Or probably not.

Tim.
 
Well, that's it for the theory of education! Don't bother? I would like to know why you disagree Tim, otherwise, agreeing to disagree is impossible. What am I disagreeing with? I don't know.

Come on Tim, we'll go easy on ya fella! ;)
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Tim, on the other side I am sure you would go to a better place than I and therefore we would not meet.
Believe it or not I am interested in the other side of the argument. I am biased against Assange because of my Military background and the fact is Wiki leak's indiscriminate release of classified documents put some of my brothers in arms at risk.
I am not blind to the premise that Government Agency's may be setting the guy up. I just cannot bring myself to argue his case.
I am interested in the other side of the coin however.
 

Keith

Moderator
Tim, Pete & Mark are correct. I would also like to hear a contra view as well. Lynch mob? I think not, but you must also respect someone's strongly held views too mate.

Assange is held by many in the UK as some kind of 'folk hero.' I see it differently and probably in a minority. (Edit: also military background) Why on earth would we fall out about your viewpoint?

All I know is, it's completely contrary to my own and it's up to you to fill in the blank spaces!

Have at it matey! Tell us what was wrong with the embassy clip? It's been on the news here a lot as you would imagine, and I've only given it a cursory view. Will have to seek it out again.

(No Leaks were harmed in the construction of this post)
 
Did I disrespect someone? Not my intention.
I have given up on the world, it is now too dark a place for me. I would once have enjoyed arguing with you although better in person than through a medium like this where subtlety is missed too easily.
All I wished to say was that I am dismayed by current events and no longer believe anyone on any side of anything. I have no energy left for argument or jokes.
I have attempted, not always successfully, to stay away from argument and to try to lighten the mood where I can, but no longer.

With all the political propaganda and wild conspiracy theories I have seen thrown around here with gay abandon I am surprised you cant see a good one when it's in front if you.

Stay well all you old buggers.


Tim.
 
Respect Tim. I feel that way all too often myself. Perhaps as you say, the subtlties of my posts are lost? I doubt in reality (although you say you disagree with my stance on the JS situation), that your view is not disimilar to mine over-all.

Don't desert the paddock, I need you, even if no one else does! ;) Balance is lost if the good guys give up.
 
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