LBC Build Log - Apex

[Scott Davis]

I'm in the process of attaching the rear subframe and need some thoughts on what I'm finding regarding fitment issues. The back was a @%^@ to get in. Very tight fit. The 4 upper bolts holes are in and the frame more or less wants to level itself which is good. The issue is with the base or pedestals. It seems the angle of the brackets is off.

First pics of non-issue fitment.







This is where I have issues

Passenger Side




Driver Side




Any thoughts?

 

[Scott Davis]

I've looked at the few other pictures of this area on the other Apex's and mine looks very different. My base seems to be at much more of an angle. These look straight.

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Is this another place I have to cut and reweld the frame??? I don't see a way around it. The 4 bolts are in the top stock locations and the subframe is level left to right and front to back.

 

[Scott Davis]

I've had nothing but problems with the rear subframe. I've now cut the lower brackets completely off. This made it much easier to align the 4 upper bolts. With everything bolted and leveled again I tried to install the interior roll cage. It did not fit. The passenger side was actually nearly a perfect fit with the tube just barely touching the door frame (I'll have to put something between them or it will rattle). The driver side is at least a couple inches off. This definitely seems to be stemming from the rear mounting location.





I thought I could make it fit by jacking up the back of the subframe so I could get the pipe in and then lowering the frame into place squeezing it by the door frame...I had the pleasure of breaking the front window somehow.

In order to fix this I think I'm going cut the pipe half through and heat the outside to bend it and reweld it. FML!!!

 

[Scott Rowland]

This can help you along quite abit.

Affordable Tube Benders, tube notchers, metal fabrication welding

I have one and they are simple to operate, very good quality of bends, and cheap! Portable too.

 

[Scott Davis]

This can help you along quite abit.

Affordable Tube Benders, tube notchers, metal fabrication welding

I have one and they are simple to operate, very good quality of bends, and cheap! Portable too.

That's a pretty affordable bender though I think we have .12 DOM and the bender is only rated to .095 that being said I just bought a welder and I was going to buy a bending brake for brackets and sheet metal work I'm going to have to do....I'd really like a tube bender but I just can't keep throwing equipment at this thing.

 

[Merim]

That's a pretty affordable bender though I think we have .12 DOM and the bender is only rated to .095 that being said I just bought a welder and I was going to buy a bending brake for brackets and sheet metal work I'm going to have to do....I'd really like a tube bender but I just can't keep throwing equipment at this thing.

i see .134 mild steel and .096 chromemoly for supported sizes on the site. not sure what the cage as shipped was done in.

This looks far more complex than I thought it would be.

 

[Scott Davis]

This looks far more complex than I thought it would be.

Yes more complex then I expected as well (well at least related to the chassis and suspension). Without getting into the parts that need to get fabricated, I think there could be a couple of issues. First not all the eclipse frames are as close together as would be ideal. I think the Apex might be better served as a kit that requires finishing of the subframes and brackets instead of something thats just supposed to bolt up as shipped (just a thought). 2nd I think its possible my frame may have moved in the jig or something that caused the base plates and inside roll cage bars to be welded out of alignment on one side (The left and right were definetly at different angles). I have no idea what their jigs look like but I suppose this could happen if its wood and used repetitively. I just hope I don't have larger geometry issues that could cause my car to be driving down the road sideways out of alignment.

 

[Scott Davis]

I decided to make the shock tower shims curved to have better contact. I'm worried about sway in the front end (not that the shock tower will help much). Will be doing some other reinforcing also.



Additionally I haven't confirmed this, but based on mockup I don't think the brake booster from the eclipse can be used as it will interfere with the subframe. My plan is to join the front subframe with the inside roll cage through the firewall on each side and also run DOM tubing from left to right behind dashboard. I'm going to try and hang my pedals from this tubing. This way the master cylinders can be mounted inside (if they'll fit). Probably these from OBP.

 

[Scott Davis]

Finally got back to working on this. Because fitment issues delayed install, the sub-frames really started to get rusty. So even though I'm going to be cutting and welding them, I had to get some paint on them to stop it. I'm using Summit DTM low voc epoxy primer (thanks CA). Sanding the tube frame down was a bear...I don't suggest waiting on this at all. That being said I'm glad I didn't get these subframes powder coated. I'd not be happy to grind it off.

After that I started cutting the steel plate to attach the rear subframe. Also because of the cutting locations on the eclipse body you loose the spot welds joining the sheet metal. I decided to weld those closed some for strength some to keep water/debris out. I have to say I'm pretty happy with the two new "cheap" tools I bought to do this. AHP tig welder ($670) and rage chop saw ($180) both work great. haha...threw in a picture of where I'm tieing into my AC unit for 30 amp service...I've got no spots left on my breaker or way of running wire...but now I can weld.

my "paint booth"


shot with harbor freight gun. grey will match interior.


had to get a harbor freight weld cart for everything also...worth it. TIG machine worked great but needs better pedal.


welded sheet metal.

welded all along



I got this as alternative to a cheap saw and good blade since harbor freight saw is 99 then a decent metal blade is 60-90. Figured I'd get a better saw that came with a decent blade for a little more.

 

[Scott Davis]

Worked on the subframe bracket again and also cut off the old motor mounts for the new motor mount on the rear cradle.

Bracket all tacked up. Wraps around on all 4 sides. Should increase the strength a lot. The sheet metal is very very thin. This will be bolted to pull in tight then finished welding.


The cradle before cutting off the old mounts


Used a long aluminum bar to keep all straight.

 

[Scott Davis]

I put together a list for my fueling purchase. There seems to be some pretty good prices on jet.com for Aeromotive stuff so I may go with that. This is detail of all the fittings I think I need from the tank to the fuel rails and back to the surge. I'm using Redhorse Performance for everything. Total cost for all pumps, filters, reg, fittings etc is $1320. This is a return system, all external, and for E85.

I'm also pulling off the stock LS vent lines and running a vent on all 4 corners (-04 AN). Will be tapping the heads while they're off. Parts list included also, should be about $115.

 

[Will Campbell]

Do you need to tap the heads for the vent lines? At least on my LS7 I didn't need to. There were blocks there that I removed and replaced with fittings that had a -3 male on them, making it easy to plumb.

 

[Scott Davis]

Do you need to tap the heads for the vent lines? At least on my LS7 I didn't need to. There were blocks there that I removed and replaced with fittings that had a -3 male on them, making it easy to plumb.

I couldn't find those blocks though I did see them as part of some kits like the trickflow. Where did you buy yours? I might just get the kit, there isn't much of a price difference piecing together and it includes the blocks.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-306s0601

 

[Glenn Martin]

If you are planning to put the fuel tank in the front, install the rack first. It constrains the space that you have to put the fuel tank or fuel cell.

 

[Will Campbell]

I couldn't find those blocks though I did see them as part of some kits like the trickflow. Where did you buy yours? I might just get the kit, there isn't much of a price difference piecing together and it includes the blocks.

Trick Flow® GM LS Engine Steam Line Plumbing Kits TFS-306S0601 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Here's a link to the adapters alone: Trick Flow® GM LS Engine Steam Line Fittings - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Not sure if this fits the LS7, but I used the OEM LS1 4-port spider that connected all the ports into a single tube that was sent to the overflow tank.

LS1 Coolant Cross Over Steam Port Vents RARE Bolts | eBay

 

[Scott Davis]

If you are planning to put the fuel tank in the front, install the rack first. It constrains the space that you have to put the fuel tank or fuel cell.

Yes, planning on the tank in the front. I actually called Fran yesterday to try and order the SLC rack. I returned the JAZZ fuel tank that they shipped me and I'm hoping they are in the neighborhood of cost. Do you know how much the rack was? I have TWO C5 steering racks so the fact that it doesn't fit after all didn't exactly work out for me lol.

I felt like I hadn't gotten anywhere with the build so I'm accumulating some parts again so I can progress fast after finishing the chassis. Order of business will be the radiator and rack first so I can work out the details of the fuel tank. I'm thinking the bodies needed to check clearance/alignment also.

My initial plan to make use of the space was to use the fuel tank to seal off the rest of the front end from the radiator and have it angled or curved to eject the air out the hood cowl. But I'm concerned about heating the fuel. Anyway will have to wait for the rack as you said. Tank can go up and over rack potentially for more space. Threw this together just for the idea but would probably use straight lines to make easier (baffling etc).

 

[Scott Davis]

Here's a link to the adapters alone: Trick Flow® GM LS Engine Steam Line Fittings - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Thanks. The kit definitely seems to be the deal. I'll either do that or tap them. I'm porting the heads myself so tapping those holes is the least of what I could screw up. However do you know why GM choose this method instead of just tapping and using fittings themselves. I'd think GM's way more likely to leak (I could have it backwards) but they must have a reason for it.

 

[Scott Davis]

Finally finished the mounting brackets.

Before:


After


Also started on the tanks using the square aluminum tubing. I'm going to combine them into two dual tanks. One dual catch can and one combined expansion and overflow so I only have to mount two tanks instead of four.




Started welding the fuel surge tank...this one's slightly larger at 6" square by 1'.

 

[Will Campbell]

Nice-looking welds!