Little Venting - SPF Construction

[Mike]

I love my car and instead of enjoying & driving it as was delivered, I started tearing it apart over the winter to make some things right. That has led me down the proverbial rabbit hole so to speak. Everything I take apart to fix ends up exposing something else I had not noticed that is substandard. The latest just puts me over the edge. I have replaced the brake reservoirs and feed lines with a Tilton setup that I'll post pictures of when I have complete. Part of the process involved removing the pedal assembly. Upon reinstalling it after many swear words and bloody knuckles, I have figured out that the clutch pedal is unable to fully disengage and contacts the bracing in the floor. This will require that I either places reliefs in the bracing structure or pedal arm itself. This along with countless other little "WTF"s has made me ask time and again. What were the people thinking at Superformance who put my car together. Did they look at this and the many other piss poor things and think.... ah yes... That will do! Were they drunk? Maybe stoned? That or they they suffered from some incredibly poor attention to details. It's not like it would have taken anymore time to do it right. Gawd dang you knuckleheads did some awful work and if you worked for me you would have been fired on the spot! Okay, I'm finished. I would have been better off just having Superformance send me the parts in a container and I could have put it together myself. With any luck, I'll have it finished next week albeit 3 months past when I thought I would. i feel better now

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Re: Little Venting

I Were they drunk? Maybe stoned? That or they they suffered from some incredibly poor attention to details. It's not like it would have taken anymore time to do it right. Gawd dang you knuckleheads did some awful work and if you worked for me you would have been fired on the spot!

Well, that at least proves that yours followed mine down the assembly line. :thumbsdown:

As I think I've said a couple times "seems like a kit assembled by someone who didn't care, not paying attention and really in a hurry" otherwise summarized as "some reassambly required".

Or to put it another way, it's only technically a roller. That is, yes, it rolls. In every other respect it's a kit.

I remember on my first visit to SPF beings stunned at the $15,000 estimate for installing the engine and trans. My friend and I thought "How can it possibly cost that much? That's at least 100 hours!"

Well, the answer is it doesn't. Most of the $15,000 goes (hopefully) to that "reassembly."

Have you run into any rivnuts half way off the end of a sheet? My favorite is the two complete circles of rivnut holes for my gas caps, one about 1/2" from the other. Oops. Sorry guv, just making it lighter for you....

Yes it definitely has that onion-peeling sense of discovering an apparently endless sequence of problems. And you even cry through the whole thing.

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

Thankfully I did not have to pay that much for Olthoff to install the drivetrain. Dennis and crew did a great job and I wouldn't have anyone else touch my car. That said, I did not pay them for the touch every nut and bolt install and as such I'm doing all that myself. I just marvel daily as I work through each nook and cranny at how crappy these cars come out of the box from Superformance. I bet I have 100+ hours already invested just addressing little odds and ends. Like I said, it would not have taken anymore time to do it right. You need to fire the entire crew that put my car together Superformance and hire some people that give a shit!

 

[Kevin L]

Re: Little Venting

Michael,

I feel your pain. My car spent the entire winter up on jack stands where I fiddled with a wide array of similar albeit more on the minor side of issues. Some of the items really are not that big of a deal (headlight access cover was not aligned so the screws went half through fiberglass and half through nothing) but a little bit of care would have solved a lot. I have never been able to get a straight reply if this is a GT40 thing or if the SPF Cobras have similar "teething" and quality issues.

Kevin

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

Gives us something to do eh lol

Mine is going to look slightly different this year when it backs out of the garage. A slightly meaner more racing inspired look if I say so. Now just to get some time on the track this summer will be the next goal.

 

[DaveM]

Re: Little Venting

I know I'll take flack for this, but we all have different expectations when we bought a Superformance GT40. I had some initial issues with mine, but Lance and Jim Price came thru and solved my problem. After 4 years ownership I can't be happier. Where else can you get a 40 this authentic without spending several $100K for a Gelscoe, Holman Moody or Thompson? I'm pretty mechanical and actually enjoyed doing the engine/trans install myself. Having owned many racecars over the years even new Formula Atlantics require some disassembly and changing/upgrading components before racing. I will agree the access to the pedal assembly is frustrating, but that's the original design. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be disappointed, but it depends what your expectations were.

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

No flack from me but you missed the point entirely. I'm not hacked that the pedal assembly is tough to get in and out. I'm hacked because the guy that mounted it didn't take two extra seconds to make sure when he located the mount holes that he made sure there was enough clearance to make sure the pedals could extend full travel. I mean it's just stupid stuff that pisses me off as I work on this car. The car is what it is a 60s designed race car. That is not an excuse to be sloppy when you are assembling it. I don't know Lance and Lance hasn't spent hours in my garage correcting stuff that would earn you an F in any high school shop class. I can't tell you how many wires I have wrapped that were laying up against raw unfinished sheet metal breaks that would in short order have eaten through the insulation and created a short. If you look at the chassis paint wrong it flakes off. How hard would it have been to have spent an extra hour prepping the chassis for proper paint adherence? I enjoy working on the car but some things are ridiculous and are plain old shoddy craftsmanship sorry. I would only say you probably have not dug very deep with your car if you are pleased with it's assembly.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Re: Little Venting

Michael,

You're not alone. Probably a lot of GT40 replica owner's have the same experiences and thoughts. I know I did/do. My CAV has amazing build quality in many ways, but there were some elements to it that definitely fall into the WTF camp. I sort of had the feeling that the car was on the shop floor being assembled when the shop foreman walked in and said "OK boys, the customer's delivery truck is going to be here in 30 minutes so wrap it up and get her ready to load"......

But then, we knew we weren't buying a corvette....

Hang in there and enjoy those little fixes and improvements.

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

Ha that or mine and Alan's were nearing the end of the assembly line late Friday afternoon and it was time to wrap it up and light up the bong and pop the keg I can only surmise. I will say after many hours I think I have addressed most of the problems and she is going to be really nice when she rolls out next week fingers crossed. I'd still like to kick the guys that put it together in the balls for being so damn sloppy on such a special car. There's no room for that kind of craftsmanship for a specialty car manufacture like Superformance.

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

But then, we knew we weren't buying a corvette....

I would have killed myself by now if I was going through all this nonsense for a Vette eeekk

 

[Ron R.]

Re: Little Venting

Dave, Michael,

You both have valid points, but you both may also have different experiences.

My car was built later than either of yours, and I think my experience may be a little different still. Are there issues? Absolutely....but asside from a few quality control problems and poor overall documentation, I've been satisfied with the product and value. Perhaps the factory learned a few things over time? Hopefully.

Is the car perfect, noooooo! A good value for the money, definitely! Especially considering the options.

I feel for you guys who bought the early cars...you were guinea pigs, and the rest of us benefit from it. Vent away, you certainly have the right, and the rest of may learn something.

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

Let's hope so Ron I mean the difference between doing it well and half assed is so small that it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm glad they have corrected some of the quality issues. They needed to! I have had some additional fab work done as I have worked to address some of the issues and do my own modifications and I am continually amazed at what people consider as acceptable. I won't name names or point fingers as everyone has stepped up and corrected their mistakes but gawd damn. I went to pick up a bracket Friday for the halon bottle and brake reservoir. The mount holes were at least 3/16" cockeyed. I held it up and showed the shop owner who immediately shook head head and took it back from me and said I will build this myself for you on Monday. I have megaphones that I had to ship back and forth 3 times to get things as simple as lugs welded on remotely straight. Is it that hard to find people that give a shit about their work? It's not just Superformance. I work in software engineering and I can tell you we let people go pretty fast that don't care about the quality of their work like I have been experiencing with this car.

 

[Jim Craik]

Re: Little Venting

Ron,

I have to agree with you. As you know our cars have consecutive serial numbers. Although I have had a few smaller issues, mostly to do with the install and as you all know, I did have that shock tower failure, but that was at 30,000 miles and Lance took care of it. Just this weekend, we spent three hours driving on Sat and two plus hours today, out to the coast for lunch.

All things considered my experiance has been fantastic. If something happened to 2264, I would order another that day!

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

I would order another one too only.this time I would request regularly detailed build reports and associated photos so as to address build issues during construction. I do have to question how much you gents have looked under the covers. I know Dave said he did the driveline install and so would have come across some issues there. I haven't really had any issues at this point with the drivetrain but then Olthoff did the drivetrain install and did a good job. Do your cars have primer under the chassis paint? How about leaking brake fluid up front on the driver side under and around the fluid reservoirs? I had to clean and repaint a lot of chassis up there where the paint had bubbled and was flaking off. Are your pedal boxes mounted forward and do the pedals fully disengage before contacting the cross brace? If not have you had issues with losing throwout bearings? Have you recently examined hoses and cables where they enter the tunnel in front of the engine compartment? Lots of sharp edges. I had the driver side door grind on the fender when you opened it and needed to remove and then reposition the alignment pin receiver for the front bonnet to correct. Most of these problems could have been easily avoided with just a little attention to detail during initial assembly. That is what aggrevates me.

 

[Glenn B.]

Re: Little Venting

After my situation with Roush and my Cobra Daytona, I can certainly empathize with your desire to vent.

I would like to offer a suggestion to all owners: Objectively document all of the quality issues with either the materials or assembly and send them through to Lance Stander.

Those of you in the manufacturing or scientific production industries know the importance of the Quality Feedback Loop. Once a product is put into use, the reporting of "bugs", product failures, or issues with end-user functionality are part of the product development cycle and overall product improvement. You have a valid gripe that the buyer shouldn't be the beta testing site, but in a limited volume specialty product, high volume testing for product failure is a financial impossibility. The early buyer ends up being the beta tester.

Very simply, Superformance can't fix what is doesn't know. Again, adherence to strict assembly procedures and use of quality control methods would eliminate the issues before they get out the door...but, unless they get complete quality reports, they won't know who at the plant is not adhering to their standards. We can help them improve the product for future buyers...and the value of the current vehicles. The value of products improve as they gain broader market awareness combined with a perception of high quality. Helping Superformance fix its problems is in everyone's best interest.

 

[Mike]

Re: Little Venting

I like your idea and am happy to report the issues I have come across. Do you have an email for Lance? I still contend that most issues I am dealing with are not design issues rather simply sloppy craftsmanship that should never have made it past the sniff test. Not sure how you solve that other than replace with people who pay more attention to detail. I'm not asking for space shuttle quality. Then again we lost a couple of those too. Both to known issues that.were simple ignored...

 

[Glenn B.]

Re: Little Venting

Lance Stander
CEO
Superformance, LLC.
Shelby Distribution
Hillbank Motorsports

[email protected]
949-900-1951 Office

 

[Jack Houpe]

Re: Little Venting

I bought a roller from Dennis and did my own install, I love my car and have almost 10k miles on it now. Yes there are lots of issues with SPF and if you've read any of my post from 2007-2008 you will hear frustration also but after its all done I sort of miss finding little things to do to it. I have been busy putting my twin turbo Ferrari back together after having the engine out for 11 years and on another forum doing the same I am doing here being vocal. But guys if these cars where perfect we would have nothing to talk about. I regret putting in a 600+ HP motor, if I could change anything it would be that to a 400 HP but overall its a great car.

Hope to meet up with many of you in Monterey on Thursday night at Baja Cantina.

 

[DaveM]

Re: Little Venting

Michael,
Maybe you have more assembly problems than some of us. Two thoughts I have are:
Would you ask for a refund if Superformance gave all your money back? I think you answered that.
I think Rick made the observation that we're basically buying a race car that happens to be street licensable. Read Carroll Smith's (GT40 engineer) books. He also railed against poorly assembled race cars and how the buyer always had to disaasemble the car and rebuild it himself.
I gather from your posts that you've not had the pleasure of driving your car much yet. I think you'll find you'll forget much of the quality issues when you do. Hope you get on the road soon.

 

[Jimmy P]

Re: Little Venting

I've read this thread with interest. I own a CAV (one of the pre 100 cars) and overall am very pleased with things. I'll join MICHAEL'S band and tell you most of the issues I've had with my CAV have been mechanic (piss poor / ham-fisted) related issues. Mechanics who just don't seem to care about their work etc. The car itself has been pretty damn good to me......(fingers crossed & touching wood) I've recently suffered through some electric gremlins but I'm unsure if this was a CAV factory issue or an "after it arrived in the US" issue where someone tried to "fix" something. When we add to this the money we paid for our cars we might ask was this a wise investment knowing we could have bought a damn nice P-car, F-car or other? But that would be missing the point IMHO of why I bought mine. Its stunning to look at, it makes an absolutely obnoxious sound (which I love), its totally impractical, but it does for me what no P-car, F-car or other can and I've driven the lot. All cars have issues some more then others no matter how big or small those issues might be but like most of us I'd buy another CAV in a heart beat just because of how it makes me feel. And yes, I don't mind fixing a small problem or two its part of the fun.......but I hope there's quite a few miles between fixes. I look forward to seeing your upgrades Michael as I think you have a very nice looking car.