Little Venting - SPF Construction

[Glenn B.]

My statement had nothing to do with posts here.

My comment was addressed personally to Michael, suggesting he provide objective evidence in defense of his position during his private conversation with Lance....something you still haven't done and continue to dodge. Or, have you called Lance this morning and just forgot to mention it?

 

[Seymour Snerd]

.. have you called Lance this morning and just forgot to mention it?

Wow, suddenly I have an appointment secretary. Do you take shorthand?

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

OK everybody. I am putting my moderators cap on and asking all to take a step back and a deep breath.

We are all here because we love the GT and in particular the Superformance version. Lets not lose sight of the goal, fun with a car we love. This is becoming personal and nonconstructive. Lets all "play nice" and continue to have a forum with a high signal-to-noise ratio unlike some other car sites we are all familiar with.

(removes moderators hat) And now for this message from our sponsors: Everybody buy a Superformance GT40 from Time Machines. Thank you.........

 

[Mike]

Lance, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. I can't retract some of the things that have been said and the frustrations have been real. That said I wish I would have had the opportunity to speak with you earlier. I find you as well as Dennis to be guys that genuinely care about what you do. I look forward to meeting you next summer when you are in Colorado for the SPF get together.

 

[Dave Hood]

I have an early Mk1 version that Dennis and Paul went through from front to back after I purchased it. Dennis gave me the list of about 20 changes he recommended, and after he made those the car has run trouble free for almost 4,000 miles. I've never worked with Lance, but having a resource like Lance or Dennis who have seen all the flaws in these cars is invaluable. I don't think you can look at a GT40 purchase as being practical (or perhaps sane) to begin with.

 

[Larry L.]

I don't think you can look at a GT40 purchase as being practical (or perhaps sane) to begin with.

I doubt you'll get an argument there!

 

[David Briggs]

Wow! I have been busy doing other things and away from the forum for a while.
I have to add my 2 cents worth,
My car had a few small things wrong but I was able to drive it from San Diego to Reno and back after only putting 600 local miles on it.
This forum was very helpful in alerting me to some of the problems found on earlier cars and some upgrades that I purchased from Oltoff.
These are amazing cars and it is easy to lose sight of that when your every day car is a Lexus or even a Hyundai. They were not designed to be mass produced and the SPF is very true to the original race car.
I have always found Lance to be accessible and helpful and having worked on other replicas I can attest to the lack of after the sale support even related to safety issues let alone run of the mill quality like poor fitting body parts (you see this in the human world as well) bubbling paint and a host of poor design and quality issues.
I guess I never expected to just be able to install an engine in the thing and drive it away happily ever after, to me, learning all about the car and making improvents and adjustments is all part of having and enjoying anything that is as unique and special as a GT40.
Dave

 

[Seymour Snerd]

I guess I never expected to just be able to install an engine in the thing and drive it away happily ever after..

I don't think you can look at a GT40 purchase as being practical (or perhaps sane) to begin with.

None of us did, and none of us said that.


Just to briefly reiterate:

1. The factory makes running fixes and improvements, some safety-related, but takes no proactive steps to contact existing owners so they can keep their cars up to date. A simple e-mail or postal mailing list would do. They wait for each of us to telephone them (or post on this forum) individually. Just an occasional informal "TSB" (technical service bulletin) would solve the problem and be more efficient for both them and us. I suspect the TSBs exist (I have a few) but are not distributed for some reason. Cobra owners seem to get equivalent communication. GT40 owners do not. Why?
2. A private discussion forum for authenticated owners, dealers, installers and the factory to present, discuss and solve technical problems out of the public eye would be only slightly harder. Why not?

 

[Doug S.]

A private discussion forum for authenticated owners, dealers, installers and the factory to present, discuss and solve technical problems out of the public eye would be only slightly harder. Why not?

I have a personal experience regarding this, Alan, and believe it is not in the company's best interest.

Having wanted a Cobra replica for a long time, I always read the build logs on the various forums and the Cobra articles in the kit car mags. It was not only just enjoyable reading, I wanted to see what the process involved for each company and what kind of issues I might encounter.

I became a fan of the Hurricane brand of Cobra, a very well designed frame and a body with very few mold lines and even those placed on flat areas of the body, combined with a build sequence that allowed for the body to be off to the painter while the chassis was assembled had almost cinched the deal for me. I went to the factory to look at what they did, etc., was preparing to pull the trigger and buy one.

Hurricane, like FFR and many other manufacturers, operates their own forum on their website. There is a public forum that is open to all viewers and a "Dark Side" forum that is available only to owners. I questioned over and over why the Dark Side was not available to potential buyers, perhaps as read-only access, so that we can perform our due-diligence. It seemed that the company was hiding something...problems with the build that they did not want the public to know about.

In the end, it was a deal-breaker for me. I am still a fan of their product, but not knowing what problems I will encounter with the build and eventual product keeps me from being able to include their product in any buying decision, past or present.

SPF should make all information public...as should all companies in the industry. These component cars can become deadly if not completed in a manner that ensures safety, and to hide potential problems behind a screen of secrecy would, to me anyway, imply that they care more about their bottom line than their customers' safety.

Just MHO, though....others will probably have a different attitude, Hurricane sure did.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Pat Buckley]

So Doug, what kind of car did you buy?

 

[Mike]

Can this thread be closed? Everything I have stated is fact and there is nothing else to add I don't believe...

 

[Seymour Snerd]

SPF should make all information public...as should all companies in the industry. These component cars can become deadly if not completed in a manner that ensures safety, and to hide potential problems behind a screen of secrecy would, to me anyway, imply that they care more about their bottom line than their customers' safety.

I agree, but guess I see that as too idealistic, and that having an owner's-only forum is a reasonabl compromise between complete openness and total secrecy. Either your concept or mine does place the customer's (owner's) safety first, however, which I think is primary.

But in any event "to hide potential problems behind a screen of secrecy" is what we have today, so either of the other ideas is a huge improvement.

So just to be clear about your situation: The Hurricane, FFR and "many others" dual-forum concept is a deal breaker. I assume therefore that SPFs no-forum concept is therefore an even worse deal breaker. If that's the case, what vendors are left?

 

[Keith]

Just read this from top to bottom in one go.

I have one question.

If this is a forum sponsored by the manufacturer/supplier, why has the principal of that company not immediately been in touch with the complainant? It is a valid means of communication right up there with email, phone calls fax etc. If not for that purpose, why does any manufacturer supply a sub forum?

This is the way it seems to work on other manufacturers sub forums on GT40's.

Sorry, two questions. Why is it wrong to post your personal experiences of your own car on here?

I am confused, and no, I don't have an SPF and no, I probably wouldn't buy one and no, not for any reason stated within this thread

If I was to buy a replica, I would want to take control over the entire build process, as my previous experience of limited production run specialist cars is less than stellar for ALL the reasons stated on this thread.

Anyway, it was a good read - thanks for the entertainment.

As for the notion that someone could be sued for "devaluing the brand" - that gave me the best giggle of all. Head on over to any BMW forum and make yourself a fortune!

I see the Paddock isn't the only place you can unwittingly partake of Pompous Pie...

 

[Jack]

Capt Hardy,
Pompus pie is not so sweet as it gets old. I much prefer humble pie as it's good for a long time!

 

[Keith]

I've eaten that ever since I got married!

Have it every day Jack...yum yum...

Sorry for thread drift, well no, the wheels had come off anyway :laugh:

 

[Jack]

i've eaten that ever since i got married!

Have it every day jack...yum yum...

sorry for thread drift, well no, the wheels had come off anyway :laugh:

exactly!

 

[Seymour Snerd]

....why has the principal of that company not immediately been in touch with the complainant? It is a valid means of communication right up there with email, phone calls fax etc....

Why is it wrong to post your personal experiences of your own car on here?

Both very good questions.

I thought it odd that some felt it was my responsibility to speak to the CEO personally before making any comment in public. I would have done so, but was waiting for Akio Toyoda to return my call about the quality of upholstery stitching in my Lexus.

Regarding your second question, I'm not sure. Apparently it's our responsbility to do everything we can to maintain other people's property value. A form of collectivism I've never before heard proposed, and an economic theory that as far as I know appears in none of the text books.

BTW, be careful Keith, somebody might re-post every intelligent, acerbic, sarcastic or ironic post you've ever made. Now that would be a good read.... and a long one.

 

[Keith]

Long... yes...sorry. (I used to get paid £££ by the word)

On a final note, (mine, not yours) I would like to pull together various strings of the same scenario taking place on this Forum as we speak.

Personally, I am not a fan of witch hunts, revenge postings, 1/3rd party shit stirring, hearsay "evidence" and the like when talking about these cars or manufacturers.

We have had a spate of criticism regarding a certain GT40 kit manufacturer all of the comments being from other forums, "I read that so and so is crap" etc and unrelated (to GT40) personal beefs.

Not one OWNER or CONSUMER of the product in question, just hearsay and repeats. Whether or not any of it is true is neither here or there in the analysis of such actions, but extremely damaging to the said manufacturer if it turned out NOT to be true. That is what you would call an "act of devaluation" whther intended or not.

On another thread, Ron said that he would rather people speak up about potential problems with suppliers having lost money in the past. That is surely the correct procedure and I'm sure that he endorses the principal that only members with personal experience of the "problem" should post them, not Fred's mate or someone "read it on Pistonheads" etc.

Putting this all together, what I see here, is not a "consumer warning" as it could have been, merely a gripe about the lack of care exercised on his car assembly which he wished could have been more professionally executed. This posted on the Manufacturers own sponsored website over a period of time.

What was the manufacturer response?

Zero... (at least as far as I know)

What was the fellow owners response? "Shut the fuck up in case you damage my resale value - what you say might be true but we shouldn't mention it here you naughty boy, keep this all private, you actually bought a 40 year old car masquerading as a newly produced item" etc etc

Then "Yes, please stop posting"

"Delete this, modify it"

Christ almighty, 1984 is alive and well and so, it seems, are the New Thought Police, or Special Police Force as we know it.

Nowhere did anyone slag off the brand. The forum police read into it what they most feared - diminishing residual values. If you weren't such greedy bastards you will have noticed that Alan's comments has actually enhanced the product as he has enthusiastically stuck with it.

It's you other lot who have devalued the brand through your fearful and paranoid comments.

If comments from an enthusiastic owner regarding his experiences with his particular car are not to be permitted on the Manufacturers own forum, then all is lost.

Actually, I have changed my mind. I WOULD buy one, just so I could moan about it on here and annoy you all..... :laugh:

(if I don't already)

Rick, send me a price list for a MKI that has all the rivets evenly spaced and non chip chassis paint. Is that an extra?

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Ok guys,

This has run its' course. The points have been made.

Anyone who has a genuine concern about a Superformance GT40 may contact Lance at Superformance (949 900 1951 or lance(AT)superformance.com) or myself, either will be pleased to help in any way we can.

As has been posted there are numerous owners who are pleased with their cars. All will agree they are not perfect but represented a good balance of originality to price and thus purchased one. While some owners have purchased the car as a resale and thus don't have a dealer, any of the Superformance dealers would be happy to help with parts and service. Just ask.