Lucas mirror ? for Doc Watson

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Yes sorry Steve did read it and will advise later tonight when I'm back home.

(this work thing gets in the way of life!!!!)

Andy
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Ok so here is the Lucas 608 mirror. Got mine about 6 months ago from ebay, £27 if I remember correctly. Steve has been asking for infomation on a correct stem and fitment.

I have ordered a correct stem and boss from Jay Cushman at Cushman Competition

Photo of mirror and ordered stem and boss.
 

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Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
The mirror need to be removed and before that the black rubber outer seal. I say rubber but mine is cracked on the edges due to age and has little 'give' it could be a soft plastic. If anybody knows where I can get a new one please let me know. Anyway the next photo shows a large crack on one of the corners. I gently prised this corner off and the rubber seal came off easily.

Next job was removing the actual mirror which is held by the top and bottom of the case with a small lip. The top lip extends over the mirror moch more than the lower lip which only just curves over the mirror. I used a pair of tweezers to gently prise one corner up on the bottom lip. Then worked along the lip line and using a 6" metal ruler worked along the bottom lip until the mirror popped out. Be careful not to scratch the mirror surface under the glass.
 

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Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
The internals were then exposed and show how the dip switch works. Also note the mirror glass is wedge shaped. The 'ball' is located between two plates and you can see the 4 tabs that hold the top plate around the ball. These would need to be bent back to allow removal of the ball. The ball/socket assembly sits on two springs (the rusty bits) and is held in place by a curved wire. To remove this you need to press down on one end of the socket assembly and you can then remove one side followed by the other. This releases the ball/socket assembly from the case but as mine still has the original stem (not for a GT40!!!) I cannot remove the assembly. The last picture shows a close up of the ball and stem. It looks like the ball is screwed into the stem, maybe brazed or soldered?? this will be cut off at that joint so the socket plates can be removed. All that is then required is to pull up the tabs for the plate and a new ball can be replaced. I'm waiting for delivery of my new ball and stem and will replace it then.

Hope this helps

Andy
 

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Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
Andy,

Edited with more comments and questions...see below

Great to have your experience and not have to experiment with mine.

I'm going to ask Lynn Miner to move this and your thread re the Lucas Ammeter to the "how to" area of the site.

Mirror I bought is without the rubber trim...Some pics of 40's show mirror w/o this...Wonder if any of the originals came w/o or if I'm not looking at vintage pics..Will be good if someone knows what can be used. If not and if you advise the rubber IS needed I'll try to source something here in the States when I receive the mirror (I have a Co that mfgs rubber extrusions nearby that may have something and if correct can't be found I'll try to get something for both of us if you want...pls advise).

I see glass is special so guess best to refurb backing at a mirror glass shop (resilver or black the back?...Also looks like the glass is adhered to the dipping mechanism with a dob of RTV ??

Another point...Mine does not have the white ball on the dipping lever (there is a black plastic sleeve there...were some originally this way?)...Guess I'll look around for something at a craft store that will mock the original if you advise that the sleeve is not correct

Steve
 
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I got the same mirror without the rubber on Ebay for $16.50. I saw the ball has a 1/4" shaft that is pressed into the chrome arm. A lip on the ball shaft allowed a screwdrive to work the ball shaft out of chrome arm. A little time on the lathe with some 1" aluminum added the hole to repress ball shaft , fit angle for windshield.
fun little project,
Randy
 

Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
Andy,

Further to post above.

Regarding the rubber: If it can't be sourced elsewhere and if you provide a 1:1 representation of the rubber cross section I will try to source here.

Steve
 

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Steve,

I think you will find that the rubber surround to the mirror was fitted in the late 60's to these mirrors. I believe it was aimed at meeting new safety standards, re sharp objects to hit heads on. The black plastic toggle to the dipping switch, replaced the earlier white ball.
The NOS original mirror i have doesn't have the rubber surround or the black toggle.
All the original cars i have seen , have not had the rubber surround fitted to the mirror.
Hope that helps.
 

Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
Charlie,

That's good news for me and I assume Doc too. Very few pics of originals have sufficient resolution to clearly see mirror details but, in a few that were clear I didn't see the rubber surround.

So I wonder if mine that has no rubber and the plastic toggle for the dipping switch was an interim design, but Doc's has the rubber AND the white ball...I'm confused.

I'm going to disassemble mine in order to install Jay's mount (thanks again Andy (Doc) for details) and have located a local mirror co that will re-silver the mirror.

One more question....How was or what is best way to adhere the mirror to the dipping bracket (what have others done here?).

Thanks, Steve
 
Great write up! Many thanks

Does anybody know of a mirror re-silvering firm in the UK? I have 2 of these mirrors (one with a white ball the other with a black stem), and would like to get the reflectors themselves back up to standard.
 

Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
Craig,

Maybe you know:

Is the glass adhered to the dipping mechanism or does it float free and if it is free flloating is there something that keeps the silvering from being abraded when operated?

Can you advise how the white ball is mounted to the dipping lever..Real question is: can a ball be retrofitted to a mirror with black stem.

Tx, Steve

ps Do you know if the black stem version was used on 40's or was it only the white ball style?
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Steve, when operating the dipping lever the whole case including mirror 'dips'. The mirror is attached to the case via the lips ( and in my case the black trim also). When you slide the dipping lever across it makes the case move in relation to the stem plates which remain stationary. There is no contact of the mirror with the dipping assembly.

I see no reason for not being able to replace a 'black lever', the black levers I've seen are just heat shrink tube around the metal dipping lever. If using a white plastic ball it would require a rectangular slot to be cut into it so it can be pushed on. Perhaps a small drill could be used to produce 3 holes in-line deep enough to keep the white ball on by pushing it on.

Dont know of anybody who does re-silvering in UK but havent searched to much.

Suggest you try antique restorers like this one

Taylor's Glass

Also having looked at various photos there are no black trims in any original GT40's I've seen (but does the one pictured below have one???, I have also seen early GT40's with a different stem and I think is located to the roof or attached to the glass near the roof.

Its also surprising how far offset to the left (for right-hand driving position) the mirror is on some cars. I assume you get better views, see photo.

Andy
 

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The glass is clamped solidly into the aluminium frame. It the entire frame that is tilted via the switch rather than just the glass. The glass does not have any contact with any moving parts.

It looks to me like the ball and lever ends are push fits. All be it pus fits that went on 40+ years ago - they are pretty solid. Can;t see any reason why they cant be switched though.

No idea which was original to a 40 sorry to say.

Simultaneous posting :)
 

Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
OK..To maybe put a final point on this (maybe not):

If the refurb silvering on mine works out OK (waiting for my ebay purchase to arrive to disassemble and have it done) and the UK guys can't find a source I will be happy to facillitate over here (with Sterling/$ probably same cost even with post).

More questions and comments:

Although my car is a MK11 I perfer the MK1 mirror mount...I have noticed that some of the cars mounted the mirror off center and I will evaluate this and may do same if it offers best visability.

I need to remove the mirror that came with the car and was thinking of using waxed dental floss like a saw to remove (anyone done this or better idea). I believe the mirror came with a peel-off self stick adhesive pad.

Wondering what best (what others have used) to adhere the aluminum mount for the Lucas and proceedure used...It's a lot heavier than the plastic mirrors that can be installed with auto store products so wondering if same products should be used or something else...Rather not experiment...Anyone?

Lynn Miner will post exerpts from this thread in the "How To" forum
and give credit to all contributors.

Thanks again to all...Steve
 
Anyone have a source for Lucas 608 mirror?

Does anyone have a source for the elusive Lucas 608 mirror? I've been checking Ebay with little success. If you have one, by all means send me a PM and we can work out a deal. Thanks!

(I trust that this won't be perceived as hijacking the thread, but I'm not sure where else to post. Apologies to Doc Watson ...)

Kim
 

Steve C

Steve
GT40s Supporter
Kim,

Look at ebay UK...I got one for Lynn and one for myself within 3 wks.

Look under Jaguar MK11 interior mirror or Lucas 608,or jaguar interior mirror ect....then need to buy the mirror to window post and stub bracket from Cushman.

If you want assembly details see Dock's posts above or call me.

Steve
 
I got mine on ebay uk - the old mini's had them aswell I think. I was having the ally window post made up and thought I'd get a few extra made if anybody needs one £10uk plus P+P. They have an m6 thread already in the front - here's a few pics.
 

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If you have a later mirror with the black rubber trim, do you think it is possible to leave it off? I wonder if the rear metal housing is the smaller on the later mirrors to accomidate the black trim.

Regards,
John
 
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