Ditto, well said, Al
Obama Fights Lawsuit
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Ditto, well said, Al
Personally I think the chances of somehting like this are slim BUT the fact that it was even discussed leaves me feeking VERY uneasy. Need to look into how to get some of my savings offshore.
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
Some apes did not have their environment change significantly enough
to require adaptation and mutation.
As above, except this is more in the lines of selective reproduction (birds of
a particular species procreate within the same species, so recessive genes
that are usually mutated out remain - similar to the issues with purebred
dogs and cats - some of those recessive traits/genes are desired, but some
are detrimental). Also, specialization comes into play - some species again
adapted/mutated to their environment as it changed.
Ian
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This is a common misconception about evolution. The science world is not saying that we evolved from apes, it's saying that we both evolved from the same ancestor. Evolution doesn't ONLY allow one branch of a species to continue on. It isn't really survival of the fittest, it's really survival of the ones who can reproduce before dying off. There are many factors that can influence this.
It sounds like most of us here are pretty equal on the abortion issue - give the woman a choice when her own life is on the line early on in the pregnancy, but selfish reasons are not what this society accepts. There are overly religious people out there that want absolutely no abortions under any circumstances. That is what I am talking about. The same goes for the right to end my life in certain circumstances. The problem here is that religious folk tend to think that anyone else is BAD and can never make the right choices. This is not the loving way of life that Jesus was supposed to have spoken about. Don't make uninformed decisions like that about me, and don't do that to yourself either - meaning basically, if you didn't have the bible you would be a terrible person.
ChrisL - interesting. I have always felt that everything is "alive", even a rock, obviously the Earth, the moon, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe.... Some will scoff at that, but they miss the important difference between the extremely short lived aerobic pissing and shitting machines that we call humans, and the much bigger picture of "life" around us. This, I believe, is where the difference in right wing and left wing views on the environment stem from. The right is "me me me" about many topics where the left is willing to make some sacrifices for the good of the whole. They can both be a bit extreme, and due to workings of human nature, these topics become difficult debates where the sides are so far apart they end up taking pot shots at each other but never score a hit.
This all goes back to what I was originally saying. We are an intelligent species. To base major decisions on how we operate as a society on a baseless, factless (new word!) belief system rather than sound knowledge is both frightening and annoying. You can't have those debates when religion enters the picture because religion won't allow any other way. The bible says it's THIS and that's that. Science say it's THIS but will accept new knowledge and will allow change when the whole community agrees. King James, however, can come along and do what he pleases in one fell swoop.
Again, there is much hatred for Obama, but from those people I see hatred for Democrats, no matter who it is. Before you assign Obama to the waste can, please take a look at the Republican party's history. They have done no better. Neither side has the answers, but one side tends to base much of their decisions on a 2000 year old "belief" system as opposed to the ongoing systematic progress of knowledge that we all take part in. Don't give up on yourself so easily; the bible is just a book. Some day we as a species will get beyond that.
I don't get it. No one said that in the video.
The Adaptation / Mutation thing has my attention -
Let's take Apes then. Here you have a Hairy Dark skinned animal that lives in a tropical climate - let's just take African Congo for instance.
Over the millenia, Apes would have migrated north / south away from the equator where they Adapted / Mutated to beings with less hair, less dense bone structure, walked fully upright, grew the mental capacity to not only reason, but well beyond.. Right?
What doesn't make sense about that?
Moving away from the equator means moving to a colder climate - I would think that would have meant that the creatures would have not only retained all the dark fur that they had but grow more!
unless
Apes really moved from the poles to the equator.. In which case, they grew hair, skin turned dark, started to lose their ability to walk upright..
Wait a minute - it still doesn't make sense.
Have we found any evidence of this migration in either direction that's truly compelling? And if so, which direction of migration, adaptation, mutation does it favor?
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Birds - Do we know if birds can mate outside of their species to create yet other species or hybrids?
Unless they moved from dense, wet, tropical jungle, and into hotter, arid, desert first.
Then you get into the extremely hot day (shed the dense body hair) vs. the cool/cold
night (retain the body hair). One has to win out over the other. And, once one does,
there needs to be some sort of adaptation/mutation to handle the cool/cold night.
Which leads us to use of shelter and fire.
Also, you have to realize, the earth was very different, both in climate and geography,
all those millenia ago. Due to plate tectonics, things that are geographically distanced
now were not so far apart then. And there is substantial proof to back that up.
No we don't. And, we cannot rightly tell if that has already happened which is why there
are so many different species. Same is true of dogs and cats.
Ian
Perhaps,,,,,
However,,,,,,,,,,THIS is FANTASTIC,,,
The “DumbAsses” and the “Geniuses” are having a conversation without trying to kill one another. I am “proud” of all.
How wrong you are. What do you mean haven't WE beaten this death? What's your contribution? Come on - join the fun!
I would have no problem having this conversation face to face at all.
I've done it before, and will do it again.
Oh, and Randy - there are still some pretty hairy humans out there
Ian
Chris P:
I need to correct you on the bible a bit. The Torah which is the first five books of the bible is way older than 2000 years. 2000years is the length of time since Jesus was crucified. He ministered for only three years but here we are thousands of years later still talking about such a short time of ministry. Our so called out dated book was written by many different authors. But in its many chapters there is one main thread. The prophetic promise of a messiah or deliver or christ. If one were to read said book and just look for passages that pertain to this promise. That person is going to find many of these references in the books of the old testament and also the Psalms and prophets. I actually find it quite amazing that in Psalms chapter 22 which was written something like 700-400 years before.
Jesus's death. His death is pretty much described in detail as well as the method of dividing his clothes. as welll as what he said on the cross My God My God why have you forsaken me.
But remember I am weak of mind and believe in absolute truth. If I am wrong I lived a good life and nothing more. But if I'm right where does that leave the free thinkers.
I need to correct you on the bible a bit. The Torah which is the first five books of the bible is way older than 2000 years. 2000years is the length of time since Jesus was crucified. He ministered for only three years but here we are thousands of years later still talking about such a short time of ministry. Our so called out dated book was written by many different authors. But in its many chapters there is one main thread. The prophetic promise of a messiah or deliver or christ. If one were to read said book and just look for passages that pertain to this promise. That person is going to find many of these references in the books of the old testament and also the Psalms and prophets. I actually find it quite amazing that in Psalms chapter 22 which was written something like 700-400 years before.
Jesus's death. His death is pretty much described in detail as well as the method of dividing his clothes. as welll as what he said on the cross My God My God why have you forsaken me.
But remember I am weak of mind and believe in absolute truth. If I am wrong I lived a good life and nothing more. But if I'm right where does that leave the free thinkers.
The assumption that early humanoids lost their fur because they moved to a warmer climate is probably not correct.
The reality is that although fur is useful in keeping an organism warm, it is also a burden on that organism. It houses parasites and increases the chance of collecting and retaining diseases. It also needs extra nutrients to remain strong and healthy, nutrients that need to be found and consumed. So unless full body fur is absolutely necessary for survival then the organism is better off without it.
So keeping that in mind, early humans probably lost their fur, not because they moved to a warmer climate, but because they moved to a colder climate where "clothes" became necessary. Clothes meant that fur became a useless burden so evolution states that those with less fur were more likely to survive and pass on their genes.
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OK and now I'm going to drop a real bomb. The theory of evolution is so powerful that it can also explain our belief in God.
Every creature on earth has adapted its own way of surviving in its environment. Cats evolved claws and sharp teeth, gazelles evolved the ability to run swiftly, birds evolved wings to fly and so on. Humans had no claws, no teeth, could not run fast, could not fly, could not outfight a pack of wolves. In fact they really only had one solitary defense against the whole world, the intelligence to analyze its surroundings and work out how to manipulate it to its advantage.
But what drives this ever-growing intelligence in this creature? What is it that humans have that no other creature on earth has that has allowed it to continue to become more intelligent? The answer is an insatiable appetite to know "why". We just have to know. This curiosity is so basic to the human spicies that without it we have no defense against the world... none. We would die out without it very quickly.
Now imagine this. Here is a creature that has not only survived but has become a dominant life form solely on the basis that it must know why. But it has now also become intelligent enough to ask the ultimate question. Why do we exist? Why? Give me an answer. The human instinct to know "why" is so strong it will not rest until it has an answer, yet here is a question that it cannot answer. Why don't I know why I exist, and why can't it answer it? It is a cruel and mind destroying situation for this creature to be in and a situation that if not resolved could result in a backward step in inteligence.
Yet here we are today. Somehow we got over this basic bump in our evolutionary path. So how did the human species stop this overwhelming instinct from being distructive? It invented God. Suddenly the world is balanced again. The curiosity instict has now been satisfied and can now continue to exist and shape human evolution without boundires.
Conversely, any early human that could not invent God, probably didn't have the same chances of survival and died away.
Say what? So does that mean that those who do not believe in God now will eventually die away too? Well maybe and maybe not. Depends on whether the all powerful human curiosity instinct can be satisfied with an alternative. Now if you you were to ask me, I would tell you that I am much more satisfied with the answers provided by science that those provided by religion. At least science has the inbuilt ability to correct itself if the answers no longer satisfies me.
The reality is that although fur is useful in keeping an organism warm, it is also a burden on that organism. It houses parasites and increases the chance of collecting and retaining diseases. It also needs extra nutrients to remain strong and healthy, nutrients that need to be found and consumed. So unless full body fur is absolutely necessary for survival then the organism is better off without it.
So keeping that in mind, early humans probably lost their fur, not because they moved to a warmer climate, but because they moved to a colder climate where "clothes" became necessary. Clothes meant that fur became a useless burden so evolution states that those with less fur were more likely to survive and pass on their genes.
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OK and now I'm going to drop a real bomb. The theory of evolution is so powerful that it can also explain our belief in God.
Every creature on earth has adapted its own way of surviving in its environment. Cats evolved claws and sharp teeth, gazelles evolved the ability to run swiftly, birds evolved wings to fly and so on. Humans had no claws, no teeth, could not run fast, could not fly, could not outfight a pack of wolves. In fact they really only had one solitary defense against the whole world, the intelligence to analyze its surroundings and work out how to manipulate it to its advantage.
But what drives this ever-growing intelligence in this creature? What is it that humans have that no other creature on earth has that has allowed it to continue to become more intelligent? The answer is an insatiable appetite to know "why". We just have to know. This curiosity is so basic to the human spicies that without it we have no defense against the world... none. We would die out without it very quickly.
Now imagine this. Here is a creature that has not only survived but has become a dominant life form solely on the basis that it must know why. But it has now also become intelligent enough to ask the ultimate question. Why do we exist? Why? Give me an answer. The human instinct to know "why" is so strong it will not rest until it has an answer, yet here is a question that it cannot answer. Why don't I know why I exist, and why can't it answer it? It is a cruel and mind destroying situation for this creature to be in and a situation that if not resolved could result in a backward step in inteligence.
Yet here we are today. Somehow we got over this basic bump in our evolutionary path. So how did the human species stop this overwhelming instinct from being distructive? It invented God. Suddenly the world is balanced again. The curiosity instict has now been satisfied and can now continue to exist and shape human evolution without boundires.
Conversely, any early human that could not invent God, probably didn't have the same chances of survival and died away.
Say what? So does that mean that those who do not believe in God now will eventually die away too? Well maybe and maybe not. Depends on whether the all powerful human curiosity instinct can be satisfied with an alternative. Now if you you were to ask me, I would tell you that I am much more satisfied with the answers provided by science that those provided by religion. At least science has the inbuilt ability to correct itself if the answers no longer satisfies me.
Chris l:
The why question I beleive is one that every person comes up to at some point in life. For me personally it was answered eight years ago. You can see the conclusion that I came to in my past posts. Science has never addressed eternity so they only address evolution, big bangs and cow flatulence.
The why question I beleive is one that every person comes up to at some point in life. For me personally it was answered eight years ago. You can see the conclusion that I came to in my past posts. Science has never addressed eternity so they only address evolution, big bangs and cow flatulence.
ChrisL - it's very interesting to finally, for the first time, hear from someone else a similar idea I have always had. A popular comment regarding God is that "Only a higher, all powerful being could create such an intelligent and complicated life form." It is very logical to counter that with "Only an intelligent and complicated life form could create the idea of a higher, all powerful being."
The only argument I would pose to what you said is that an answer to the question "Why?" can be explored through both religion and science. The difference being that science, or at the very least some rudimentary form of trial and error, can actually help and accelerate the search for a means to protect oneself from the environment.
Now to continue ...
Science and religion are not two dipolar groups. It doesn't make sense that it has be that way. In fact, there are plenty of contributing scientists out there that are religious. Why can't there be a creator AND evolution? Suppose life was created and has evolved since then. It's very possible.
Science hasn't addressed eternity because it hasn't found enough information to draw any conclusions or even create any useful hypotheses. One can argue that the bible addresses it, but what is the basis for it? You have to take a leap and just accept the information with "faith." Why? What is the point of that? It is so convenient that the original writings in the bible are from millenia ago. It's too difficult to argue authenticity for either side, and distance in time gives it some sort of magical quality that pretty much solidifies it for many people. What if those writings were only centuries old; closer to us and more tangible? Wasn't that the way it was for Jesus? He was speaking "crazy" talk. He was even crucified. Nowadays, you speak "God's word" and it is so much more accepted because it's been around for so long. There are so many things to just accept with faith. Accepting the most fundamental and important thing that describes mankind seems like the last one that should be accepted so easily.
The only argument I would pose to what you said is that an answer to the question "Why?" can be explored through both religion and science. The difference being that science, or at the very least some rudimentary form of trial and error, can actually help and accelerate the search for a means to protect oneself from the environment.
Now to continue ...
Science and religion are not two dipolar groups. It doesn't make sense that it has be that way. In fact, there are plenty of contributing scientists out there that are religious. Why can't there be a creator AND evolution? Suppose life was created and has evolved since then. It's very possible.
Science hasn't addressed eternity because it hasn't found enough information to draw any conclusions or even create any useful hypotheses. One can argue that the bible addresses it, but what is the basis for it? You have to take a leap and just accept the information with "faith." Why? What is the point of that? It is so convenient that the original writings in the bible are from millenia ago. It's too difficult to argue authenticity for either side, and distance in time gives it some sort of magical quality that pretty much solidifies it for many people. What if those writings were only centuries old; closer to us and more tangible? Wasn't that the way it was for Jesus? He was speaking "crazy" talk. He was even crucified. Nowadays, you speak "God's word" and it is so much more accepted because it's been around for so long. There are so many things to just accept with faith. Accepting the most fundamental and important thing that describes mankind seems like the last one that should be accepted so easily.
Chris,I have been following this thread with much interest in the varying ideologies of the forum members. I'm pleased to see we can now have a reasonable discussion even though things won't change much. With respect to my recent post,I was actually trying to inject a little humor into the thread without meaning to offend either of you guys.My comment was based on the last sentence of Dave's last post. Oh well.....that's why I'm not out working on the stand-up circuit! A.J.
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