Oil Cooler with Remote Filter
- Thread starter RacerDave
- Start date
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
See Chuck's post here: http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...cooling/34107-oil-temp-sensor.html#post331761
Dave,
I have that setup. Where are you planning to put the cooler. On the side or at the rear? Will send you pics of mine tonight.
Bill
I have that setup. Where are you planning to put the cooler. On the side or at the rear? Will send you pics of mine tonight.
Bill
Dave,
I think I have a little more than what you want. However, you will need some of these features. Take a look at what I have then read my thoughts.
This is a rotating remote oil filter adapter. This is a good thing to think about. It allows you to tilt it any way that is needed. This will make up for any mistakes in deciding the length of the oil lines. If you don't have room for the filter in its stock location, then you will have to make it remote. There is a distinct in and out. You don't want to reverse these. Considering what you want, this is not what you should get, but similar. There is a sandwich plate that the filter mounts on and there are two lines coming off of it to go to the cooler. They usually drop the oil filter from 1/2" to 1.5" lower. So check for clearance.
What you will need weth this, is a built in thermostat that will open when ready to have flow to the cooler. The better ones will shunt oil flow back to the engine til hot enough. Then to the cooler. Like here.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-502erl/overview/
Some of the cheap ones don't have a thermostat.
Now you have to make some decisions as to how do you plan to use your car. Is it going to see track time?. If the answer is yes then you have some other stuff you need to think about.
This gets a little involved but it is some things to think about.
To oil filter- This is the line from the adapter to the remote oil filter. The adapter is a 4 port piece. Two in and two out. I use the first outlet to the oil pressure gauge. T'd off of that is a low oil pressure switch. This switch can be at any level of pressure you want. I chose 10#. When the oil gets lower than 10#, it shuts power to the fuel pumps and thus kills the engine. You can't be watching the gauges all the time. If you don't have a baffled oil pan, and you are in a high speed long turn, or a loose oil plug dumps your oil for instance, it can spell disaster. The second "oil in" hole is for a second thermostat that runs the fan to the oil cooler. I have it wired two ways and can turn the fan on with a switch or the thermostat if I forget. The second oil out goes to the remote thermostat. This thermostat allows some oil to get to the cooler and some back to the engine. Once hot enough it opens and sends oil only to the cooler. Saves on thermal shock from the cold oil to the engine. The oil that is coming from the cooler goes through the thermostat and goes through a one way valve to the engine. This serves two purposes. One it keeps the oil flowing only in one direction as it goes to the cooler. No back flow. The second purpose comes when oil pressure drops in the engine like the incidents mentioned earlier. I have an 'Accusump" oil accumulator that, when the oil drops to around 20#(you determine what the level is), the accumulator pumps 3 quarts of oil into the engine to try and stave off the low oil pressure. When the oil pressure comes back to normal, the oil is automatically pumped into the accumulator. If it continues to stay low then the low oil pressure switch cuts the power to the fuel pumps and saves the engine(in theory). The Accusump is plumbed into the line returning to the engine and after the one way valve to make sure the oil goes to the engine. Some guys like to use it as a pre oiler before starting the engine. You can wire the valve with the ignition switch to open when it is in the run position for that.
This is a bit more than you need, but it is something to think about.
Bill
I think I have a little more than what you want. However, you will need some of these features. Take a look at what I have then read my thoughts.
This is a rotating remote oil filter adapter. This is a good thing to think about. It allows you to tilt it any way that is needed. This will make up for any mistakes in deciding the length of the oil lines. If you don't have room for the filter in its stock location, then you will have to make it remote. There is a distinct in and out. You don't want to reverse these. Considering what you want, this is not what you should get, but similar. There is a sandwich plate that the filter mounts on and there are two lines coming off of it to go to the cooler. They usually drop the oil filter from 1/2" to 1.5" lower. So check for clearance.
What you will need weth this, is a built in thermostat that will open when ready to have flow to the cooler. The better ones will shunt oil flow back to the engine til hot enough. Then to the cooler. Like here.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-502erl/overview/
Some of the cheap ones don't have a thermostat.
Now you have to make some decisions as to how do you plan to use your car. Is it going to see track time?. If the answer is yes then you have some other stuff you need to think about.
This gets a little involved but it is some things to think about.
To oil filter- This is the line from the adapter to the remote oil filter. The adapter is a 4 port piece. Two in and two out. I use the first outlet to the oil pressure gauge. T'd off of that is a low oil pressure switch. This switch can be at any level of pressure you want. I chose 10#. When the oil gets lower than 10#, it shuts power to the fuel pumps and thus kills the engine. You can't be watching the gauges all the time. If you don't have a baffled oil pan, and you are in a high speed long turn, or a loose oil plug dumps your oil for instance, it can spell disaster. The second "oil in" hole is for a second thermostat that runs the fan to the oil cooler. I have it wired two ways and can turn the fan on with a switch or the thermostat if I forget. The second oil out goes to the remote thermostat. This thermostat allows some oil to get to the cooler and some back to the engine. Once hot enough it opens and sends oil only to the cooler. Saves on thermal shock from the cold oil to the engine. The oil that is coming from the cooler goes through the thermostat and goes through a one way valve to the engine. This serves two purposes. One it keeps the oil flowing only in one direction as it goes to the cooler. No back flow. The second purpose comes when oil pressure drops in the engine like the incidents mentioned earlier. I have an 'Accusump" oil accumulator that, when the oil drops to around 20#(you determine what the level is), the accumulator pumps 3 quarts of oil into the engine to try and stave off the low oil pressure. When the oil pressure comes back to normal, the oil is automatically pumped into the accumulator. If it continues to stay low then the low oil pressure switch cuts the power to the fuel pumps and saves the engine(in theory). The Accusump is plumbed into the line returning to the engine and after the one way valve to make sure the oil goes to the engine. Some guys like to use it as a pre oiler before starting the engine. You can wire the valve with the ignition switch to open when it is in the run position for that.
This is a bit more than you need, but it is something to think about.
Bill
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Bill:
I was thinking a this was a bit simpler. Cannot remember seeing a thermostatic valve on any of the late model stock cars, but maybe that is why we sold dry dump tank heaters.
Why did you feel you needed temperature control on the lines? If an engine starts up from cold and it all warms at at the same rate does the cooler keep the oil to cold?
I was thinking a this was a bit simpler. Cannot remember seeing a thermostatic valve on any of the late model stock cars, but maybe that is why we sold dry dump tank heaters.
Why did you feel you needed temperature control on the lines? If an engine starts up from cold and it all warms at at the same rate does the cooler keep the oil to cold?
Not necessarily. It does however slow the warm up period considerably. Thick cold oil is not your friend. With all the exhaust tubing under the hood so to speak, temperatures can get pretty high pretty quick. The oi is the last to rise with out 8-9 qt. capacity wet sumps. But once heated it can be our enemy instead of our friend. Especially with stop and go traffic. Now transmission coolers on the other hand are a different question. My Porsche shop foreman says they are not needed, even the road racers rarely use them, and the ones that do are tiny compared to the ones we are mounting. I only have one to balance out the oil cooler at the rear of mine.
The few times I have gone on any long trips, the temp gauge has barely moved. Even without a shield from the exhaust.
Bill
The few times I have gone on any long trips, the temp gauge has barely moved. Even without a shield from the exhaust.
Bill
Racer Dave
I have a 10lt DS tank
Confirming bills comments, I have a small heat exchanger on the engine which has heater hoses to it.
It helps heat the oil as well, on the street it is more than enough and still takes time to heat the oil, it doent come up till you drive the car.
At the track it is not sufficient, I would see oil temps at about 10-20 deg c above water temps depending on the track.
On the road with the heat exchanger I would see easy 10-20 c below water temps
I have stayed of fitting an oil cooler because I want to fit a thermostat as well,this adds plumbing but will give you the best of both worlds.
I had an oil cooler about 1/2 the size of one of Bills coolers and it was located as per original GT40 in the side vent, it worked to well but I had no thermostat.
Bill has a lot of cooler I dont think you would need that much.
Hope this helps with the decision making.
Jim
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Here's some really good parts.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...PAR-90-DEGREE-ROTATING-REMOTE-FILTER-ADAPTER/
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...-SBF-REMOTE-BILLET-ALUMINUM-OIL-FILTER-MOUNT/
Earls Plumbing Catalog
The cooler I used is a 81610ERL An10, 5" X 11" X 2"
Holley Performance Products 3 ft. PC Hose - Size 10, ID .5625, OD .796875 403010ERL
I like Earls or Aeroquip fittings and hose. They are strong and don't break. Do yourself a favor and don't use Russel or other cheaper fittings or hose. Blowing a fitting or oil line will really ruin your day.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...PAR-90-DEGREE-ROTATING-REMOTE-FILTER-ADAPTER/
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...-SBF-REMOTE-BILLET-ALUMINUM-OIL-FILTER-MOUNT/
Earls Plumbing Catalog
The cooler I used is a 81610ERL An10, 5" X 11" X 2"
Holley Performance Products 3 ft. PC Hose - Size 10, ID .5625, OD .796875 403010ERL
I like Earls or Aeroquip fittings and hose. They are strong and don't break. Do yourself a favor and don't use Russel or other cheaper fittings or hose. Blowing a fitting or oil line will really ruin your day.
Howard,
You show the very pieces that I have with my setup. MY coolers are probably overkill but I needed to fill out the rear sections of the car and give it balance.
The one thing I forgot to mention is that I added quick connect fittings to both the oil lines and the fuel lines. It was a work saver when I had to pull the engine several times back when i had ring gear problems.
Used and new can be found on ebay.
Be sure to tighten the fittings good. I overlooked my oil pressure gauge fitting and didn't notice til I saw smoke:veryangry: 50 lbs of oil pressure makes a mess.
Bill
You show the very pieces that I have with my setup. MY coolers are probably overkill but I needed to fill out the rear sections of the car and give it balance.
The one thing I forgot to mention is that I added quick connect fittings to both the oil lines and the fuel lines. It was a work saver when I had to pull the engine several times back when i had ring gear problems.
Used and new can be found on ebay.
Be sure to tighten the fittings good. I overlooked my oil pressure gauge fitting and didn't notice til I saw smoke:veryangry: 50 lbs of oil pressure makes a mess.
Bill
Your running a 351w, with those I would recommend using -12 lines & fittings and ensure any filter blocks/adaptors/ coolers have similar size fluid passages & flow rates, plus keep all lines to as short a length as possible, use a blind / cover for the cooler in road use that you can remove once warmed up for track use. Bear in mind that one of the Ford blocks most tight restriction points is where the filter bolts on to the block so use the remote filter option and install an alternative filter that allows greater flow. Always a lot of conjecture as to whether filter before cooler or vice versa. If your going to replace rather than clean the cooler after any failure then filter first, if you want to risk cleaning coolers post failure for reuse then filter after cooler is a good idea. Personally I would just mount a dummy air/oil cooler with hoses to look pretty & confuse the rivet counters and fit an oil/water heat exchanger, at least you can clean them
Howard Jones
Supporter
Ahhhhhhhhh...............Jac tell me more about water/oil HE's. I am using one on my SLC to avoid using up available air scoop area. I really like the concept, especially controlling oil temp to the same temp as water. In my case my target is about 200F, maybe just a few degrees less but above 190F at least.
The one I have plumbed in is from a Ford police car. I didn't spend a lot on it and I am going to see how it works when I get the car running.
Engine is a hyd roller lifter/rocker 355 SBC @ about 475-500 crank HP. Rev limit will be 6500.
The one I have plumbed in is from a Ford police car. I didn't spend a lot on it and I am going to see how it works when I get the car running.
Engine is a hyd roller lifter/rocker 355 SBC @ about 475-500 crank HP. Rev limit will be 6500.
Attachments
Pity we didnt have those cop cars here in NZ as a source for coolers.
Those fitting look like -10 from here, & I would like to see the cooler disassembled to internal passage size. Daves car being spaceframe should have no problems with space for that & if he has enough room in the filter area to stand the filter approx 3" out from its current position then he could fab up a sandwich adapter assy with large thread filter and only require two hoses to fit whole setup.
Those fitting look like -10 from here, & I would like to see the cooler disassembled to internal passage size. Daves car being spaceframe should have no problems with space for that & if he has enough room in the filter area to stand the filter approx 3" out from its current position then he could fab up a sandwich adapter assy with large thread filter and only require two hoses to fit whole setup.
Julian
Lifetime Supporter
I know Pantera guys using the Crown Victoria heat exchangers, a relatively cheap solution if you can get hold of them. I have a Laminova, which offers a lot more flexibility on fitting sizes and offers dual core.
British American Transfer
http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf
Julian
British American Transfer
http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf
Julian
Howard Jones
Supporter
Jac, Yes I believe they are 10's. They are the same size as the fittings on the sandwich plate. The oil filter adapter/sandwich plate's internal passage is 1/2 inch so it didn't make much sense to increase hose size only to neck the fittings down at each end. Hose lengths are less that 30 inches so that's not to bad.
I used the same adapter on my SBF and haven't had any issues with the AN10 size. I have good system pressure and the oil stays right at 200F, even on a very hot (106F) day.
Like I said I am looking forward to seeing how this works. I'll be sure to let the group know when I start developing the car. Watch my SLC build log.
Adapter..........
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...41----SBC-REMOTE-OIL-COOLER-SANDWICH-ADAPTER/
I used the same adapter on my SBF and haven't had any issues with the AN10 size. I have good system pressure and the oil stays right at 200F, even on a very hot (106F) day.
Like I said I am looking forward to seeing how this works. I'll be sure to let the group know when I start developing the car. Watch my SLC build log.
Adapter..........
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...41----SBC-REMOTE-OIL-COOLER-SANDWICH-ADAPTER/
I like simple things Dave, lot less seems to go wrong with them..
In the canton listings that Howard posted the adaptor reqd is pn-22-545 for ford filters, this only pushes the filter further out by 1.5" from the std position. You could modify this to incorporate a 2nd -8 oil line to the rear of the block main gallery if you intend to run that motor up around 7k.
Im sure a man of your talents on the lathe could spin one up on the lathe at lunchtime..
Howard Jones
Supporter
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