Other mid engine kit cars.
- Thread starter Ian Cairnduff
- Start date
The Ultima is a little more expensive at
$89K US for a turnkey minus.
A CAV GT40 can be had for about $20K US less.
Unassembled kits run about $20K under that.
Options and special mods will bring the price
higher.
The Ultima probably handles better, and also
can probably be made to be quicker and faster
due to better aerodynamics. The main reason
is it is it's own car, not a replica of a
40 year old. Again, the more money you throw at
either car, the closer the gap is.
The bottom line is which would you rather have
and why? Pure performance - probably the
Ultima is better. Pure looks - the GT40
is, IMHO, a much more evocative car. A car
with some history and notiriety - the GT40.
Both can do well on the road as well as on
the track, so that's a push.
Ian
$89K US for a turnkey minus.
A CAV GT40 can be had for about $20K US less.
Unassembled kits run about $20K under that.
Options and special mods will bring the price
higher.
The Ultima probably handles better, and also
can probably be made to be quicker and faster
due to better aerodynamics. The main reason
is it is it's own car, not a replica of a
40 year old. Again, the more money you throw at
either car, the closer the gap is.
The bottom line is which would you rather have
and why? Pure performance - probably the
Ultima is better. Pure looks - the GT40
is, IMHO, a much more evocative car. A car
with some history and notiriety - the GT40.
Both can do well on the road as well as on
the track, so that's a push.
Ian
I had an opportunity to look at the Ultima CanAm at the Knott's AHA show recently. In my opinion, the engineering, the design detail, and the finish of the gelcoat body in nothing less than spectacular. I was impressed! More expensive certainly, but it depends on what you're looking for. As Ian said, it is it's own car, not replicating anything; this you may like or not like. The GT40 of course replicates a very famous road and racing vehicle; this may or may not be you passion. Choices, choices!
Andy
Andy
Something that is supposed to be shown at Carlise is the K-1. It uses a Honda Accord drive train mounted in the rear. It looks intresting (in pictures) and it is made in Slovakia (wifes country). Web site is http://www.k1-styling.sk/
Ian,
Here in the UK Ultima's are becoming more popular. I've thought long and hard about purchasing one in the past.
The components are exceptionally well engineered & designed. There are some extreemely high spec cars around & they do fetch top money.
Styling is very personal & they look great from some angles, but a bit gooky from others.
The only criticism's I've heard have been the ride quality on poor road surfaces. I understand this is due to the very short wishbones combined with big tyres, many on 18" rims.
Fiberglass quality is excellent & the overall fit & finish puts many other cars to shame.
Just my 2c worth!
Here in the UK Ultima's are becoming more popular. I've thought long and hard about purchasing one in the past.
The components are exceptionally well engineered & designed. There are some extreemely high spec cars around & they do fetch top money.
Styling is very personal & they look great from some angles, but a bit gooky from others.
The only criticism's I've heard have been the ride quality on poor road surfaces. I understand this is due to the very short wishbones combined with big tyres, many on 18" rims.
Fiberglass quality is excellent & the overall fit & finish puts many other cars to shame.
Just my 2c worth!
Ultima...hhhmmmm...fantastic car but you have to buy every bit from ultima them selves. The good thing about the GT40 is that there are lots of mfs out there and it tends to keep the prices lower (in comparison) I was speaking to a guy at the open day last week, (Nigel Dean) and his car has the smaller brakes (ie not 12 inch AP's) NO rear wing and a seconhand engine and it STILL cost him £35,000 ($50,000 ish?)
ive seen one ofose ultima GTRs go, they tested one in a car show my auto teacher brought in. i was impressed, watched the guy doing corners at lke 160 and sometimes hit them smooth, but when he fuckled up it was interesting, no real body roll, the car would just loose grip and spin for a little bit, then keep going...and the driver wiped out hard sometimes
my gripe with it is the looks and the fact that the one i saw was a single seater... defeat the purpose of a fast car. if i buy a car capable of 200mph+ i wanna have bragging rights that i got some in it
yeah its bad, but i swear when i buy one, that willbe the first thing im gonna do after i get the car up to 200mph, go get some lol
my gripe with it is the looks and the fact that the one i saw was a single seater... defeat the purpose of a fast car. if i buy a car capable of 200mph+ i wanna have bragging rights that i got some in it
yeah its bad, but i swear when i buy one, that willbe the first thing im gonna do after i get the car up to 200mph, go get some lol
The Ultima is a spectacular car. I've only driven one, and it's my understanding that the company that was importing them to the west coast is now gone (they were down in Costa Mesa, CA).
The GTR is the coupe version, which is what I drove. It had two seats, a Chevy V8, and was scary fast. The ONLY complaint I had was that it had absolutely no rearward visibility at all; only two small side mirrors, which were virtually useless. Of course, the proper way to compensate for this issue was to simply drive faster than everyone else.
The Can Am and the Spyder, obviously, don't suffer from the problem of being able to see out of the car.
Also, the front corners on the car I drove (and in the pictures of from the Ultima website, it doesn't appear to have change) are a bit farther out, and closer to the ground than the GT40's corners are, which means you're going to have to take any driveways or ramps at a pretty radical angle to avoid scraping the stuffing out of them. Speeding into a driveway is a very bad move...I didn't do it, but I know what it looks like.
Your pal,
Meat.
The GTR is the coupe version, which is what I drove. It had two seats, a Chevy V8, and was scary fast. The ONLY complaint I had was that it had absolutely no rearward visibility at all; only two small side mirrors, which were virtually useless. Of course, the proper way to compensate for this issue was to simply drive faster than everyone else.
The Can Am and the Spyder, obviously, don't suffer from the problem of being able to see out of the car.
Also, the front corners on the car I drove (and in the pictures of from the Ultima website, it doesn't appear to have change) are a bit farther out, and closer to the ground than the GT40's corners are, which means you're going to have to take any driveways or ramps at a pretty radical angle to avoid scraping the stuffing out of them. Speeding into a driveway is a very bad move...I didn't do it, but I know what it looks like.
Your pal,
Meat.
I have met and spoken with Lee Noble who designed, built, raced, developed and finally sold the Ultima to its current producers in Hinkley, Leicestershire, England.
Lee succesfully raced the Utima in one of the 750MC series. The idea behind racing was to stimulate sales of a new kit car that was based on the style of the Group C racecars. Actually, to say he was succesful is a mild English understatement - he blew everyones PHUQING doors OPH.
The Ultima, under Lee's guidance, was also used as a test bed vehicle that evolved into the £million Maclaren F1 supercar.
As a designer and builder Lee has some 20 years experience which encompasses a variety of kits and racecars. These include a stonking Ferrari P4 replica that is now built by someone else.
If you would like to see Lee's latest beast check out his site www.noblecars.com. This details the M12 GTO which is a production vehicle, cost about $80k, twin turbo V6, 0-60 in 3.9secs and on its launch rated as nothing short of stupendous by all of the motoring press.
Check it out.
Lee succesfully raced the Utima in one of the 750MC series. The idea behind racing was to stimulate sales of a new kit car that was based on the style of the Group C racecars. Actually, to say he was succesful is a mild English understatement - he blew everyones PHUQING doors OPH.
The Ultima, under Lee's guidance, was also used as a test bed vehicle that evolved into the £million Maclaren F1 supercar.
As a designer and builder Lee has some 20 years experience which encompasses a variety of kits and racecars. These include a stonking Ferrari P4 replica that is now built by someone else.
If you would like to see Lee's latest beast check out his site www.noblecars.com. This details the M12 GTO which is a production vehicle, cost about $80k, twin turbo V6, 0-60 in 3.9secs and on its launch rated as nothing short of stupendous by all of the motoring press.
Check it out.
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Juan,
It should be pointed out that Lee's original design was the Sports. I think Ultima still offer this if people want it, but they will do their best to discourage you (same if you even start talking about putting a Rover V8 in...)
The GTR was a evolution of Lee's original design, with the main thought process lying behind aero and build ease (the original sports had a few more panels to line up). I still have launch report here in my study next to me.
Brett
It should be pointed out that Lee's original design was the Sports. I think Ultima still offer this if people want it, but they will do their best to discourage you (same if you even start talking about putting a Rover V8 in...)
The GTR was a evolution of Lee's original design, with the main thought process lying behind aero and build ease (the original sports had a few more panels to line up). I still have launch report here in my study next to me.
Brett
Brett,
A fair amount of development has gone into keeping the Ultima with the times as regards the fashion in vehicle lines and aesthetics. As with many models the Ultima has had its edges softened somewhat recently.
I agree Rover is definately a bad word in Hinkley - I live nearby - Chevy is the preferred word. If you pop by the factory - behind Safeway - you will generally see a reasonable selection of models parked up.
They may have incorporated some aero into the package now - but has it been near a slide rule and a wind tunnel. With the help of several coffee's I watched Lee sculpt the M12 GTO master by hand over some weeks not a calculation in sight as regards aero - all total seat of the pants. The same is true of TVR, once read an article where the owner said their criteria is basically does a prototype look good when its wheeled out into the yard and yah boo to expensive development costs.
Back to the Ultima. If you get hold of a copy of 750 Racer, Peter Herbert & Dick Harvey, you will see that their instructions for chassis design & construction is not a million miles away from the Ultimas.
Regards, Juan.
A fair amount of development has gone into keeping the Ultima with the times as regards the fashion in vehicle lines and aesthetics. As with many models the Ultima has had its edges softened somewhat recently.
I agree Rover is definately a bad word in Hinkley - I live nearby - Chevy is the preferred word. If you pop by the factory - behind Safeway - you will generally see a reasonable selection of models parked up.
They may have incorporated some aero into the package now - but has it been near a slide rule and a wind tunnel. With the help of several coffee's I watched Lee sculpt the M12 GTO master by hand over some weeks not a calculation in sight as regards aero - all total seat of the pants. The same is true of TVR, once read an article where the owner said their criteria is basically does a prototype look good when its wheeled out into the yard and yah boo to expensive development costs.
Back to the Ultima. If you get hold of a copy of 750 Racer, Peter Herbert & Dick Harvey, you will see that their instructions for chassis design & construction is not a million miles away from the Ultimas.
Regards, Juan.
I saw an article on the Noble in the English magazine "Performance Ford" and I have been eyeing it ever since. Unfortunately it isn't sold here in the U.S. Perhaps some day I'll get to see one in person. I hear it is awesome. I'd love to get some sales literature on the Noble. I'd be more than happy to pay for it. Any chance one of you gents over in England could help me out? Thanks!
Jim Seisser
Jim Seisser
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Juan,
Fair point, you just have to see the Ultima site and see the pics of them in the MIRA tunnel...
As for the M12, did you ever see Lee's M10? Now that I liked.
Brett
Fair point, you just have to see the Ultima site and see the pics of them in the MIRA tunnel...
As for the M12, did you ever see Lee's M10? Now that I liked.
Brett
Brett & Big Red,
Which just goes to prove I should shut up. Have'nt checked out their web site and did'nt know they had been to MIRA. I know Lee's attitude is as long as it looks good and goes why waste the money - even though MIRA is only about 5 miles away. Bruntingthorpe (was) at about 2.5k a day cheaper though and only a few extra miles the other way, apart from that the Walton's who own B'thorpe are sometimes sympathetic to impoverished designer builders.
Was the M10 the one that looked like an MG roadster that had a bypass, the one where Tiff Needell said stonking drive shame about the looks? If it is its the same chassis as the M12, but with roofy bits.
Mr. Big Red, check out Nobles web site, www.noblecars.co, you should be able to get a brochure. Be advised though the brochure is brief, the designer lets the car speak for itself. And having spent a couple of test drives in the pre-production vehicle, which is the one that was given to the press to play with, I can say that it does. Two turbos a sucking and a whizzing just behind you combined with something that has the road holding of crazy glue and the acceleration of roadrunner on speed is awesome.
Regards, Juan
Which just goes to prove I should shut up. Have'nt checked out their web site and did'nt know they had been to MIRA. I know Lee's attitude is as long as it looks good and goes why waste the money - even though MIRA is only about 5 miles away. Bruntingthorpe (was) at about 2.5k a day cheaper though and only a few extra miles the other way, apart from that the Walton's who own B'thorpe are sometimes sympathetic to impoverished designer builders.
Was the M10 the one that looked like an MG roadster that had a bypass, the one where Tiff Needell said stonking drive shame about the looks? If it is its the same chassis as the M12, but with roofy bits.
Mr. Big Red, check out Nobles web site, www.noblecars.co, you should be able to get a brochure. Be advised though the brochure is brief, the designer lets the car speak for itself. And having spent a couple of test drives in the pre-production vehicle, which is the one that was given to the press to play with, I can say that it does. Two turbos a sucking and a whizzing just behind you combined with something that has the road holding of crazy glue and the acceleration of roadrunner on speed is awesome.
Regards, Juan
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Juan,
I think the M10 was Lee's first attempt at using the Ford Duratec 2.5 (but I could be wrong). The car itself was a convertible, used the engine in stnadard tune, but had a big bulge in the rear, which caused poor rear visability. If i can find the article on it I will, but we are talking about going back to 1998.
As for the M12, have heard it is meant to be even better now that Lee is using the 3L version of the V6. Thoughts?
Brett
I think the M10 was Lee's first attempt at using the Ford Duratec 2.5 (but I could be wrong). The car itself was a convertible, used the engine in stnadard tune, but had a big bulge in the rear, which caused poor rear visability. If i can find the article on it I will, but we are talking about going back to 1998.
As for the M12, have heard it is meant to be even better now that Lee is using the 3L version of the V6. Thoughts?
Brett
BigRed,
But it is! The Noble M12 GTO is available in the USA as a roller component car. Call Dynamic Motorsport in Ross, Ohio and ask for "1G Racing". Ron Rosen is bringing in the Noble ready for the 3.0 Ford to drop in. Around $53,000-a good value and very niely built. They offer a kit for the turbos, crank and rods to give to your engine builder.
The Noble is built to a very high standard by Hi-Tech Auto in South Africa (think Superformance...) and is a really neat car IMHO. They have updated the USA cars with DOT compliant lights, etc. so the cvar is legal as a "self assembled vehicle" like our beloved 40 replicas are. I haven't found a website for the US version yet but I am sure Ron will have one soon..
Rick
But it is! The Noble M12 GTO is available in the USA as a roller component car. Call Dynamic Motorsport in Ross, Ohio and ask for "1G Racing". Ron Rosen is bringing in the Noble ready for the 3.0 Ford to drop in. Around $53,000-a good value and very niely built. They offer a kit for the turbos, crank and rods to give to your engine builder.
The Noble is built to a very high standard by Hi-Tech Auto in South Africa (think Superformance...) and is a really neat car IMHO. They have updated the USA cars with DOT compliant lights, etc. so the cvar is legal as a "self assembled vehicle" like our beloved 40 replicas are. I haven't found a website for the US version yet but I am sure Ron will have one soon..
Rick
Brett & Big red,
Sorry, bad english. The M12 has roofy bits, the M10 does'nt. If it is the one I am thinking of there were,nt even half a dozen built.
Useless piece of information time. The original M12 sculpting had a roof scoop a'la Lotus Exige. The 2.5 Duratec was hinted at being something wierd and wonderful by the press, it was to my understanding a Ford SVO item - that is to say available off the shelf - with a couple off Renault 5 turbo's bolted on (Garrett something or others, I think).
3 litres. As the cousins say " the more cubic inches the better".
Now then, how about the Phantom GTR as a prospective chariot. They have put an awful lot of design and thought into it - they have also had input from Coventry University. Mechanically it takes the Rover/Honda V6 (which can be tweaked) but with persuasion it can be prepared to take the Ford V6 Duratec.
I personally think that the only difference between the Phantom GTR and the Noble is the marketing. The phantom is a bit pre M12 and the design and build team are from the mainstream motor industry.
Big red, silly question time. Where would you drive something like an M12 over there? Every time I visit I want to be in a pick-up or SUV like everyone else - for my own self protection.
Regards, Juan.
Sorry, bad english. The M12 has roofy bits, the M10 does'nt. If it is the one I am thinking of there were,nt even half a dozen built.
Useless piece of information time. The original M12 sculpting had a roof scoop a'la Lotus Exige. The 2.5 Duratec was hinted at being something wierd and wonderful by the press, it was to my understanding a Ford SVO item - that is to say available off the shelf - with a couple off Renault 5 turbo's bolted on (Garrett something or others, I think).
3 litres. As the cousins say " the more cubic inches the better".
Now then, how about the Phantom GTR as a prospective chariot. They have put an awful lot of design and thought into it - they have also had input from Coventry University. Mechanically it takes the Rover/Honda V6 (which can be tweaked) but with persuasion it can be prepared to take the Ford V6 Duratec.
I personally think that the only difference between the Phantom GTR and the Noble is the marketing. The phantom is a bit pre M12 and the design and build team are from the mainstream motor industry.
Big red, silly question time. Where would you drive something like an M12 over there? Every time I visit I want to be in a pick-up or SUV like everyone else - for my own self protection.
Regards, Juan.
