Passing smog in CA

I'm trying to line up all my ducks before pulling the trigger on a kit purchase. One nagging issue is registering the vehicle and passing smog in California. I am aware of SB100, but getting one of the 500 exemptions handed out each year could take some time.

That said, I'm wondering how I can pass smog without SB100 (and what smog requirements would I have to pass)?

Hopefully some of you can give me some guidance on the following options:

1. Use an old motor like a 289. Cost? Sources? Streetability? Performance?
2. 302 with webbers. Do I have any chance if getting a referee to pass this motor?
3. 302 with EFI. Would it pass? What year standards would I have to comply with?
4. Other Ford V8 options of at least 300-350 HP?

Many thanks,
Mark

 

[dave harris]

Hi Mark - welcome to the madness!

The "quick" reply it "you must meet the smog requirements of the year the engine block indicates"

So, if you use a 1965 (that's what I'm planning on), you don't have to have any specific somg equipment (just a pcv valave), and since the engine is 1965 - you don't have to pass smog (as 65's are now smog exempt), but you will have to go in every 2 years, pay the necessary state gratuity, and they will make sure you still have a 1965 etc engine.

So, if you use a 66 engine, you need a smog pump (Thermacter pump?), if you go later you need the additional equipment for each successive year.

If you get into the newer engines, (later than 73 now?) then you would be required to actually have smog checks every 2 years.

basically, you need the smog equipment present for that specific year.

I plan on using a 65 block to get registered, sorted and driving - then wait in each years "lotto" and transfer my registration to sb100 exemption against the year the car is intended to replecate - and then build up a monster 331!

hope this is clear -

 

Thanks Dave.

Just checked the CA BAR site (http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp?Body=/Smogcheck/doineed.htm) Looks like '76 and newer will require a smog check every 2 years. The 30 year rolling exemption is gone.

So, I guess what you're saying is even if I put a '75 engine in (which doesn't require a smog test), I would be required to have what ever smog equipment was on a '75 (PCV, smog pump, ??). If I bought a new 302 LB from Ford Racing, I would be a 2005 and would have to meet 2005 requirements (OBD III and all that - basically impossible. Better to use a donor).

Hummm.....Since my kit won't be here until next summer (and I won't need an engine until next Fall), maybe you should sell me your '65 289 once you get your SB100 exemption. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mark

 

Oh, one more question -

If you use a '65 block - do the heads, intake and carb have to match a '65? Obviously it would be easy to change the cam and stroke without calling too much attention, but it would be nice to use webbers or even EFI.

-Mark

 

Mark,

If you used a 65 block, you must have the carb that came with that engine. I have a cobra that has a 64 block in it and I did the same thing that Dave is talking about.

When the Ref, saw the motor, he mentined that my DP Holley/Mech. Secondary is not the original carb (he wasn't happy) but he let me slide because at leaset I had the PCV hooked up. I don't know what he would have had said if he had seen 8 stacks.

Now, in my GT40, I have a block that is from 1971 (347 stroker). I have no other choice but to wait for sb100. 1971 302 would need a pump, pcv, fuel canister,,,etc. And my webbers have to be ditched as well.

So the plan for all of us in Northern Cali is this,,,Dave will buy the 65 block, smogs his, and the motor will be passed to me, Howard, Bud and you (You are last, because you are "new") /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We all may have to wait 7 years or so, because Dave is veeeeeery SLOOOOOOOOOOW. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[dave harris]

OUCH !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Save yourself a lot of headaches and follow the procedure for your SB100 number, pay the fees and be done with it, '65 blocks have a 5 bolt bell housing and arent the best for basing a performance engine on, unless of course you're looking for originality, just my .02.

 

[Andy Besic]

Chris
I have a 64 or 65 (can't remember and too lazy to go look) HiPo 289 block. The HiPo blocks have the larger main caps/bolts and a higher nickel content so I was told. I am running an internally balanced 331 strocker kit in it with no problems.
If you have to stay with the 65 heads....that is where you are going to have problems balancing streetability and performance. The HiPo heads I was running in the 289 had a power band like a 2-stroke, but modern heads give you more useable power.

 

[dave harris]

Chris K., Are you sure about the 65 289's having a 5 bolt pattern on the bell housing? I thought they changed from 5 to 6 bolt in 65??

Andy, can you look at the back of your block and verify if it has 5 or 6 bolts on the bellhousing (er, adapter plate)?

Chris, re: SB100, we are all trying for this route this year, I'm just planning ahead as I was 1 hour late last year and missed out of a whole year - I just would hate to pour $$$ into a great 331 and have to sit another year to play the lottery again!!

thanks

 

[Andy Besic]

Dave

My block is a 6 bolt. For the HiPo I think they went from 5 to six bolt in the middle of 63 or 64. Sorry, I don't have any of my research here to tell you exactly when. That was the reason for my post but alas I had a blonde moment and left that out.

The other point of my post was that the old HiPo block supports the stroker motor now, so you could build your 331, but you wouldn't be able to get the most from it until you get a modern head and cams in it.

 

[dave harris]

Hi Andy,

thanks for the update - I thought that the 64 289 blocks were just like the 260 blocks in 64 aka 5 bolt bell housings, and that sometime in 65 they changed to 6 - I'm going to have to dig out some very old books and check on this one!

I plan on AFR 185 heads, "le mans" style solid lifter cam and rev the Pi$$ out of the little bugger until I can pass the sb 100 lottery!
thanks again!

 

[dave harris]

Ok, found this data on the web -

CID Year Casting# Bore Deck Notations

260 62 C3OE-B 3.80 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, 6" between motor mount holes, 2 freeze plugs per side
260 62-65 C3OE-C C4OE-B C4OE-D C4OE-E 3.80 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, 7" between motor mount holes, 3 freeze plugs per side

289 63-64 C3AE-N C4OE-C C4OE-F C4AE C4DE
4.00 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing

289 65-68 C5AE-E C5OE-A C6AE-C 4.00 8.206 6 bolt bellhousing

289HP 63-64 C3OE-B C4OE-B 4.00 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, orange color code - block rear
289HP 65-68 C5AE-E 4.00 8.206 5 bolt bellhousing, orange color code - block rear

302 68-69 C8OE-A C8OE-B C8TE-B 4.00 8.206 6 bolt bellhousing

I question the HP bolt pattern data for 65-68, but Well se what Andy says!

thanks everyone

 

A little poking around with google turned up re-manufactured 289's with 6 bolt bellhousing -
http://market.autopartsfair.com/ford-car_engines/item-uli_710oy.html?campaign=theautochannel

I assume this is a short block - didn't call. Since it is a reman, you should be able to claim that it is a '65 engine and be done.

So the plan is this - stroke and cam a 289, but make sure the heads look stock and use an original 4 brl, etc. Get the vehicle registered, then start making mods. I'll have 2 attempts at SB100 before they look at my engine again. Even if I don't get a SB100 exemption, maybe I can find a smog station that doesn't know or care - "hey, it is a 289 and it is exempt".

-Mark

 

[BenL]

[ QUOTE ]
302 68-69 C8OE-A C8OE-B C8TE-B 4.00 8.206 6 bolt bellhousing

[/ QUOTE ]
The numbers on my 6 bolt HP block are: 7F23 C8OE 6015A

'68 (C8) is the model year, but the casting date is: June 23, '67

 

I also looked up th info and my mistake, the beggining of 65 was indeed the start of the 6 bolt block, alot of the early 289 mustangs had '64 blocks which is what threw me off. Andy, the hipo block differences as far as I remember were the beefier main caps, the cranks were high nodular iron with a brinnel stamp, solid lifter cam, more compression and of course the heads with screw -in studs, spring pockets.

Still with the way California is I would gear up for the SB100 route, it would allow for greater flexibility in your build, even if you had to camp out at the DMV Jan 2 at 8am to be assured of your sequence number, I myself was there at 10am jan 2 a couple years back and was assigned 146, but these days as I understand it the dealers get first crack at them. If you do go the other route just be aware that the engine will always need to be that same '65 289 and I belive (could be wrong) that the have you smog it every two years to maintain your exemption in SPCN car. I think this would be their way of getting fees out of you one way or another, remember we are in California and all they really want is for you to pay them.

 

Ben, just a passing note the first 302 castings were made in '67 but casting codes "C8OE 6015A" as '68 blocks as noted by your date code "7F23". (June 23, 1967) which if found in the heads is the head casting code (which should be a C8 #), and if found stamped on the boss next to the dist. is the engine assembly code.

 

[ QUOTE ]
maybe I can find a smog station that doesn't know or care

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark Im afraid the BAR referee will determine and smog your engine the first time and they are paid to care, a little note here, be very nice to him and dont try to pull antyhing over on this guy as he can make your reg. process easy or hellish, same goes for the CHP officer who does your VIN, and for that matter the guy/gal at the DMV

 

[BenL]

[ QUOTE ]
Ben, just a passing note the first 302 castings were made in '67 but casting codes "C8OE 6015A" as '68 blocks as noted by your date code "7F23". (June 23, 1967) which if found in the heads is the head casting code (which should be a C8 #), and if found stamped on the boss next to the dist. is the engine assembly code.

[/ QUOTE ]
The heads are: C7ZE

 

Under the valve cover there should be a date code as well ,the casting # you gave "C7ZE is for a '67 289 smog (thermactor) head.

 

[ QUOTE ]
...but these days as I understand it the dealers get first crack at them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! so we don't even have 500 to play with. I wonder how many of these are being sucked up by car dealers and what kind of black market they have created for selling exemption slots.

I think I need to buy property in Nevada.

-Mark