Pilgrimage

[KrisB]

So...I made the Pilgrimage to Detroit and visited the fabled stables of RCR.

Went to see for myself what everyone already knows...Fran's products are vedy', vedy' nice....rockonsmile

Went to see the RCR70 Coupe, fully expecting to be awed by it....but I ran into this:

Which immedately reminded me of my current toy:

Okay, I know, two completely different birds, but I am partial to yellow (its in the genes)...but check out these other pic's

One more...

And then there was this little toy...

One more...

and the last...

So Fran's shop is definitely an Adult toy store...and oh by the way...the engineering level is great.....and the finishing quality is much better than anyother replica manufacturer that I've seen....far and away better than the outta the box FFR Cars.

Fran was out when I visited, but Mark provided a tour and was able to answer most of my questions...Fran called later and answered everything Mark couldn't.

Regarding the Fuel Cell issues...Yes, Fran does offer a way to get a fuel bladder into the saddle tanks...and yes it might be a bit redundant, but it will probably get you pass the tech inspection for track events.

Don't know if anyone ever asked, but they can do NASCAR bars and cages for those of us who might need them.

Since I drive an NSX for fun....Fran and I discussed suspension, weight distribution and brakes....

Looks like something close to a 45/55 or 40/60... This is good....might be able to move a little more forward by putting in some rake, but a good starting point to begin sorting things out.

Overall, I was very impressed and found his "Carlise surprise" even cooler....Fran can explain that one.

Unfortunately, I left some what conflicted....RCR70 or RCRP4...yes, yes, I know...get both...but that would give me three toys...well four...boomsmile

On the flight home I kept wondering what that RCRP4 or RCR70 would be like to drive at VIR....say...with a high rev'ng alum V-8...G50 trans..short shifter....ah, oh, this is going to hurt the bank account.

Finally, thanks Fran for the tour... I need to do some more research and I'll be in touch...for those of you who are thinking about this...you've gotta do the visit...you'll be very impressed.

Regards,

 

[Sandy]

Yes, it hurts to see all the cool stuff sitting in the shop! Just also don't forget the 917k to make you more conflicted

Sandy

 

[KrisB]

Yes, it hurts to see all the cool stuff sitting in the shop! Just also don't forget the 917k to make you more conflicted

Sandy

Gee thanks...chuckle.

Did take a look at it and I've always like them....but its an aircooled set up and I ain't going there for now...

Still leaning towards the RCR70, but I have to admit I like the lines of the RCRP4...suspect the handling will be very similar...so its pretty much an appearance thing.....

Regards,

 

[John Milmont]

Thats the one thing that kills me: how do these cars handel? We know how much R&D went into setting up the NSX; it sure makes me wonder about these RCR cars.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Thanks Kris...glad you had fun.

John,
every single suspension and steering component is adjustable so the chassis/suspension tuning is almost infinite......and tunable to your liking.

 

[KrisB]

The handling issue is something that is of great interest to me and seems to be an issue for any replica....but gotta remember these are replica's...not production cars and not fully sorted out race cars...well not yet.

The things I like about the RCR's are:

1. Very tunable....due to the construction/design of the front mounts, I should be able to adjust travel and height, caster, camber, and toe is there too... If you use a G50 or 930...then you have a great foundation to bulid a upon.

2. Chassis is very stiff....add the six point cage and NASCAR bars....and its basically a shifter Kart with IRS.... Given the weight of the car, braking and springs will need to be sorted out, but its not like I am trying to get a 2.5 ton truck to do a road course.

Ulitmately, I see a great looking unique platform that is well engineered, but needs to be sorted out for personal tastes...what I like is that it has almost everything I need (note the "I" vice the everyone) and what isn't can be added....it just might turn out to be a dragster that corners fairly well...but that ain't a bad thing....

No, I don't expect to beat my NSX around a corner...the NSX can be a beast if driven correctly on a road course....but if you use a 500hp engine with a nice flat torque setup in a RCR, I'll bet it would out pull my NSX everyday to Sunday and twice on Tuesday....

And you've gotta like the lines of the cars...who else is making affordable well engineered replicas of 3B T70 Coupe's and P4's?

Just my IMHO.

Regards,

 

[Scott]

Kris just get a supercharger from Basch for the NSX and it will keep up in the straights pretty well.

 

[KrisB]

Kris just get a supercharger from Basch for the NSX and it will keep up in the straights pretty well.

Lucky You!

I was considering the Comptech set-up before they closed their doors this year. Now I'm going to keept the NSX normally aspirated and spend the money on a replica toy...er, car.epper: You're right...you'll be a beast on the straights too.

Its amazing what you can do with the NSX...performance mod's etc...

Regards,

 

[Howard Jones]

I guessing but I bet a NSX is getting on nearly 3000LBs. If I am right, you set your toy up right and put in about 450HP it's gonna surprize you in relation to the performance of you NSX. Nice suprize too, I would guess.

 

[Scott]

Kris I wish I had an NSX. I just get to drive one occasionally that has the supercharger on it. It's a totally different experience from the big block Cobra for obvious reasons and is what has convinced me to make my next project a GT40. I want the mid-engine car but with some extra grunt.

 

[domtoni]

Kris,

I agree with you. I have been to Fran's shop 3 times in the past 5 months, plus the various visits I made to his PRI stand.
I suffer from the same complex, except that I have the Ford GT Mk IV with an FE engine in the mix as well. I think I got over the 512 with a Ferrari V12 (cost).

WHo knows what final decision I make (then it is not final, as I can always buy another).

Best
Dom

 

[Mesa]

I too have an NSX, while the supercharger has always been in the back of my mind, after riding in one of CT cars I just went "Uhhh that was nice, but". Plus you really have to dump some coin in the brake system to make it worth a poop, as they are easily cooked with agressive/track type driving. Don't get me wrong it IS a GREAT road car (26 mpg at 80 mph is nice too), I often wonder why I'd ever sell it, then I buy ANOTHER set of 19" Yokohama's for the rear and I cringe. Again. IMO although I really like my NSX it is just not a "Super" car as delivered.

The classic RCRs are based on suspension geo of the time (I believe). I don't know how well it will adapt to radial technology but it can't be bad, maybe just not ideal. I don't know.

By design I think that is what the new RCR P car is for, with 2,000+ pounds, modern suspension geo and with a even a mild motor I would expect it to crush my NSX without much of a fight. Otherwise IMO the money, the construction and the proper suspension setup work would not be worth the effort. But then there is the exclusivity, the pride, the potential for making the car YOUR car. That I expect is just as valuable to the crowd on this forum as all the rest.

In the end the two approaches to making a car are worlds apart, require signifigantly different effort and are for very different customers. Will a RCR P match an NSX for comfort on the street? I would think not, but you make your choices don't you? (Blonde, Brunette or Redhead?) Off the rack or custom built?

I am looking forward to seeing more on the P Car from Carlisle for sure.

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

dom....best choiche..buy all rockonsmile

and Fran will be an happy man

 

[Dean Lampe]

Quote "Thats the one thing that kills me: how do these cars handel? We know how much R&D went into setting up the NSX; it sure makes me wonder about these RCR cars."

John, what makes you wonder? If you have a question, then lets hear it. I am not sure I like the tone of your last line.

If I am off base, I apologize. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

 

[Russ Noble]

Quote "Thats the one thing that kills me: how do these cars handel? We know how much R&D went into setting up the NSX; it sure makes me wonder about these RCR cars."

John, what makes you wonder? If you have a question, then lets hear it. I am not sure I like the tone of your last line.

If I am off base, I apologize. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

Dean, I think John was raising a valid concern that a lot of people may have. How can a boutique operation like Frans compete with the R&D budgets of the big manufacturers?

Basically, I feel the answer is that the big guys have a whole team of university graduates driving computers to come up with setups and then the results are incorporated in a chassis and they are tested by numerous different test drivers then revised and changed ad infinitum until they get it the way they want it. Huge development costs!

Conversely for Frans specialist operation, as I understand it he has been around motorsport most of his life, he and his team have a lifetime of real experience to draw upon. They have the practical experience to know what works and why, so they are ahead of the ballpark to start with. From there it doesn't take much to come up with a fairly optimum setup.

Bearing in mind that what one consumer may think is ideal, another may not! Handling can be subjective. Frans cars I am sure will work very well on the factory setup and he has hit the nail on the head when he states that everything can be adjusted to suit individual requirements. That is the answer!

I am not familar with NSX suspension but I bet you are generally stuck with the compromises that Honda has decided upon. An NSX may be the best thing since sliced bread but of necessity there will be tradeoffs in the suspension department. So too with the RCR factory setup! The difference being it is probably easier and cheaper to personalise your optimum setup with an RCR than a Honda.

Just because something is a boutique operation doesn't mean that it is necessarily any good! There have been instances on this forum of GT40 manufacturers who have got their suspensions terribly wrong. The difference is the experience of the individuals involved.

Some RCR's will soon have some road and track time under them, it will be interesting to hear their feedback.

John was right to raise that point.

Cheers

 

[John Milmont]

Quote "Thats the one thing that kills me: how do these cars handel? We know how much R&D went into setting up the NSX; it sure makes me wonder about these RCR cars."

John, what makes you wonder? If you have a question, then lets hear it. I am not sure I like the tone of your last line.

If I am off base, I apologize. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off in a negative way. It’s just that there so much more to the car then pretty looks, and I wonder about all the little things that make it up. If I ever got one of these cars I would want it as a dedicated track car where I would be taking the handling to the limits all the time. This is where I get scared, because I don’t know how the suspensions were developed on these cars. There’s a lot more to a suspension then adjustability; there’s all the geometry which is something you really can’t change. Now, you may ask why I’m so concerned? Well, it’s because I’m one of those university people that Mr. Noble so eloquently stated. Again, sorry for coming off so harshly, I don't mean to offend anyone.

 

[domtoni]

My simple take:
- if the RCR uses factory suspension
- the car uses modern rubber
- the chassis is stiffer than the originals
- the old cars in their time (by today's standards) are still very very very fast
- the RCR can't be a bad bet
- and the suspension is adjustable

Believe me, car companies compromise alot of all that they do.

Best
Dom

 

[Dean Lampe]

Then my apologies. I read to much into it. Here's what I can tell you. I have been told that the suspension geometry was checked and recheck for the inherent problems that face many race cars like bumpsteer for example and it passed the test. I will check mine and post the numbers here. If they are not right after I have adjusted all there is to adjust, the world will know. Better or worse.

Its all just a work in progress. I think Fran has done an exceptional job.