Pin-drive adapter nuts and sockets

[Mark Worthington]

My RF has pin-drive adapters and I would like to find some proper tools with which to tighten the adapter nuts onto the wheel studs. What I've been using so far is an adjustable wrench, which gets jammed between the nut and the adapter flangs just when they're starting to get tight. These are the funny round nuts with two flats on them. A lot of mine have been buggered by the previous owner of my kit. Here's a picture to illustrate what I'm talking about...

I have been trying to locate a socket that I could use to tighten these things properly without buggering the flats any more than they already are. For that matter, I'd like to find some spare nuts. Does anybody know of any sources for the nuts or for a tool to tighten them? Failing that, I've asked a local machinist to give me a quote on what it would cost to produce an adapter socket for these nuts out of 1018 steel. The adapter socket would fit over the flats on the nut, and would have a 7/8" (or thereabouts) hex head. If nobody can tell me where to get a proper socket for these nuts then I'll go ahead and have one made.

 

[Mark Clapp]

Mark, try a fastener company like Fastenal. They may have the nuts/tool or another fastening system that would work.

 

I just tightened mine with a 9/16 box end wrench. Seemed to work fine for me.

 

[Steve Toner]

What's the fun in that? Go to Harbor Freight and buy yourself a mini milling machine and make your own tools /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

I used a 9/16 also if I remember correctly. If not Stve maybe on to something.
John

 

[Robert Logan]

Mark,

Weuse "Snap-On" spanners and the correct size.

Please remember to use thread lock on the pin drives. We use Locktight.

Best wishes,

Robert

 

Anybody ever wonder why the adapters are not threaded differently for the left and right sides of the car? Didn't some of the older British cars have different thread patterns? And I remember Chrsyler used to have left hand threads for the left side of the car, and rights for the right. Or maybe it doesn't really matter... I don't know, but I'd like to hear what someone who does know thinks!

 

[Steve Toner]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody ever wonder why the adapters are not threaded differently for the left and right sides of the car? Didn't some of the older British cars have different thread patterns? And I remember Chrsyler used to have left hand threads for the left side of the car, and rights for the right. Or maybe it doesn't really matter... I don't know, but I'd like to hear what someone who does know thinks!

[/ QUOTE ]
The knockoffs are supposed to have different threading for each side of the car. I know my car (a CAV) has them this way. Does your car not? Or are you talking about the lug nuts? I don't think it makes much difference which way the lug nuts are threaded...

 

No, the pin drives, stub axles, whatever, are all threaded the same direction, standard, you know, righty-tighty, lefty-loosey. I was thinking about contacting Trigo (I think that is the name of the company) and asking their opinion. But then I would also need two more spinners, too. I was thinking of using what I have and marking them to see if there was any loosening. Jury still out here.

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

We have pin drive hubs or knock-ons as some call them and I remember the direction to tighten or loosen thus:

nearside normal / offside odd

Of course this only works if you drive on the left hand side of the road.

We once had a wheel not located on the pins, but tight against the front of them. The first time we braked hard, the wheel spun and undid the spinner - luckily it did not come off but the yaw effect by having no braking effort on the front near side was extreme to say the least.

All adds to the spice of life... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bill Bayard]

Re: Pin-drive adapter nuts and sockets *DELETED*

Post deleted by Bill Bayard

 

Big Hammer, Vice Grips and WD40 - all you ever need

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Hi Bill

"Left side of car...left hand thread...??"

I assume this is looking at the car from the front, as opposed to sitting in it. Otherwise, one of us has it wrong??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

(or are you talking about the six pins themselves? as opposed to the central main spinner?)

 

[Steve Toner]

Loctite? Rubber Mallet?

The ends of the spinners should be drilled and the spinners safety wired after bannging on them with a lead hammer (doesn't rebound like rubber) of about 5 pounds or so. The safety wire doesn't really do much to hold them in the event they come loose, it's more of a reminder/visual indicator that the hammering has been done.

 

[Bill Bayard]

Hi Paul,

I'm glad you caught that typo! I never would have noticed it! Proofreading pays big dividends! Thanks!


Bill

 

[Gary Gibbs]

Another way to think of it is that the top of the spinner (above the center of the wheel) is hit towards the rear of the car. Same on both sides.

 

[Malcolm]

To add to what Paul has written above, my quote for remembering the tightening of spinners is drivers are odd and passengers are normal! In the Uk of course. In US or other left hand drive countries clearly the passengers are not all there!

For the adapters, on the GTD system we often use K nuts. These are aircraft spec lock nuts. Ordinary lock nuts are no good in this situation as the heat will melt the plastic an dthey could drop off. I also use thread lock as well just in case. On my first installation I got the torque up wrong and one wheel did loosen. I then adapted a ring spanner so that I had a much better fit to the nut and have had no problems since. You really need these tight!

Perhaps Robert could comment on whether K nuts would suffice on the RF cars. Then his builders would not need special tools.

For Pat who has Trigo adapters and spinners above, I would suggest you give Trigo a rollicking for selling you 4 units with the same thread as that is a big no no to me. Don't wait and see if you get a problem as in the extreme, the cost of a crash may be more than the cost of a phonecall.

Just had another look at the picture above. Clearly my thought on K nuts would be no good if these nuts on the RF doubled up as the pin drives. Not clear as I haven't seen many RF yet!

Malcolm

 

[Ron Earp]

The nuts are the pin drives which might be the source of some of the confusion. I think some people thought the question was about the spinners, while others thought it was about the nuts.

The RF has five drive "pins" and each of the pins is a nut that also holds the mounting flange to the brake rotor.

R

 

[Mark Worthington]

Well, this is a bit embarrasing, but a decent 14mm open end wrench works fine. Guess I should ditch that adjustable wrench, huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Rather than have sockets made up, I think I'll just get a good-quality (i.e., Snap-On) 14mm crow-foot socket, which will allow me to achieve a consistent torque setting that I can't realize with an open-end wrench.

As for the spinners, the units supplied by RF are indeed standard right-hand threads. I spoke to Robert about this as I remember hearing nmemonics such as "tight ass" for tightening up the right- and left-hand spinners on either side of the car. I beleive he said he had difficulty in sourcing left-hand threaded adapters and spinners. I gave it some thought and decided that any advantage in having both right- and left-hand threads on the adapters was realized during acceleration but lost in braking. I therefore decided to safety wire the spinners to the wheels and be done with it. If I ever got serious about tracking this car I would have a set of CCW wheels made up to fit the hubs without the pin-drive adapters and probably realize something approaching 15 pounds of saved weight per wheel.

 

[Dan W]

I have had two 1000 lb formula cars with pin drive/single nut type wheels and both of them tightened in the righty tighty way (120 lbs) and they never came loose. I checked them often , dont know about a street car though. I know on the mid sixty vettes some of the guys drill a hole from the center of the hub , outward (radially)then tap it for a small machine screw allen head . They tighten the nut, then use a allen wrench to tighten the screw outward into the threaded part of the nut , then put on the center cap on the wheel, dont know if something like this is possible on the 40 set-up. The vette boys say it works real good, stops the phenomenon of instantly opening up the wheel wells for larger tires /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif , oh watch the crows foot on torque , it will multiply because of your moment arm increase .There is a formula you can do to figure the difference,regards dan