Safety wire

Glenn M

Supporter
The tip of the spinner is more “authentic” I think but not ideal with respect to a positive safety of the spinner.

the best spot for the hole in the nut is at the base of the spinner ear.


Why?
I would disagree. Surely, as it would require significantly greater force to prevent the spinner undoing by holding it at the base than at the tip, it has to be safer to restrain it "authentically" at the tip?
 
For what reason(s)?

Dave Hood’s appears to be broken near the pigtail.

Tim’s is better (he has the anti - chafe installed) , but is not twisted tightly at the spinner ear and the pigtail is not bent in a “U” and twisted in the opposite direction of the main wire.
 
Why?
I would disagree. Surely, as it would require significantly greater force to prevent the spinner undoing by holding it at the base than at the tip, it has to be safer to restrain it "authentically" at the tip?

???

The point of wiring fasteners is to prevent them from becoming loose. If as you say it requires more force to “break” the wire if attached on the “nut” portion of the spinner instead of the end of the ear, how can the “Authentic” way be a better safety?

When the wire is terminated at the tip of the ear it is a far less positive safety simply due to the angle of installation.

My wheels were safetied the “Authentic” way, but as an aircraft mechanic it always bothered me because it’s not the best safety.

it was done that way back in the day because these cars were raced and safety wiring was done “quick and dirty”.

I’m sure no original cars had wiring done with the time and care done on an aircraft today. At least not the equipment I wrench for a living
 

Glenn M

Supporter
The point of wiring fasteners is to prevent them from becoming loose. If as you say it requires more force to “break” the wire if attached on the “nut” portion of the spinner instead of the end of the ear, how can the “Authentic” way be a better safety?


To quote you Scott... ???

That is not what I said at all. Totally the opposite in fact. Read it again.
I said it would be much harder to hold it at the nut end if it was trying to come undone. i.e. To take it to extremes, if the same torque was applied to the spinner, the lock wire at the nut end would break before the lock wire at the tip.
To put it another way, much less force is required to keep the spinner done up by holding it at the tip than at the nut end.
The angle of installation you mention purely depends upon where you have the hole in the rim, or which spoke you loop the wire round, in relation to the ear of the spinner. For instance, in the pictures that you are referring to, Clayton's is almost immediately underneath the spinner ear, which would, possibly, allow the spinner to loosen slightly, whilst both Tim's and Dave's are one spoke back allowing no movement. But they would all prevent it coming undone, which is surely what we want?
 

So just to be clear and to eliminate my “Colonialist butchering” of the English language, which style safety do you think results in a more positive way (less movement in the loosen direction) of securing the wheel nut?
 

Markus

SPRF40
Lifetime Supporter
I checked all four wheels this morning, visually. They all look like that. Would you suspect a backspacing / geometry issue?

Tim, if you compare pictures of Superformance mkI and mkII cars you will see that all mkII look the same. It sems that the mkII wheels (Halibrand style) are thicker in that middle section (or different chamfer design)..... were with the mkI wheel (BRM style) the wheel hub sticks out....
Now if this is an issue or if there is enough "meat" in the mkII setup I do not know.....
 
In past discussions it has been mentioned that the safety wire be used as an indicator that the 'nut' or 'knock-off' is coming loose, eg the safety wire is fitted in a manner where it is installed with a slight amount of slack and any movement of the 'knock-off' will tighten the safety wire.... essentially its easier to judge visually if the safety wire has become tight than how much slack it might have had...... as an after thought, I see Nascar- or whatever they call it now- is going to 18" alloy wheels next season and with center lock single nut fastening, .... wonder if they will safety wire those. Scott for wheel man? or will the un-encumbered environment come up with a better way and put Scott & safety wire out of business :cool:
 
I checked all four wheels this morning, visually. They all look like that. Would you suspect a backspacing / geometry issue?

That’d be an engineering issue I’d inquire with SPF about if, that is what mfg replica you own.

My thoughts are though that several threads should protrude through the nut.
 
In past discussions it has been mentioned that the safety wire be used as an indicator that the 'nut' or 'knock-off' is coming loose, eg the safety wire is fitted in a manner where it is installed with a slight amount of slack and any movement of the 'knock-off' will tighten the safety wire.... essentially its easier to judge visually if the safety wire has become tight than how much slack it might have had...... as an after thought, I see Nascar- or whatever they call it now- is going to 18" alloy wheels next season and with center lock single nut fastening, .... wonder if they will safety wire those. Scott for wheel man? or will the un-encumbered environment come up with a better way and put Scott & safety wire out of business :cool:

I remember reading that too and laughed my ass off! That’s what “witness marks” are for not safety wire.

It’s like saying “Well, I’ll let my wheel nuts loosen, then I’ll torque em back up”

I guess it takes all kinds
 
So just to be clear and to eliminate my “Colonialist butchering” of the English language, which style safety do you think results in a more positive way (less movement in the loosen direction) of securing the wheel nut?

Hi Scott,
I've read all the threads, videos etc available on wheel spinners & safety wire, not found a definitive explanation to date of which way a spinner thread should go & consider safety wiring only as a 'safety net'.

So I did some homework....

Physics suggests a male spinner should try to self tighten (if loose) if threaded in the direction of forward wheel rotation. At the moment a spinner loosens it has unwound a little on the axle, the axle load on a male spinner bearing on an inclined plane of the wheel cone should for a while continue to help hold a loosening wheel against the hub (excluding lateral cornering forces). The spinner's cone withdrawing from the wheel effectively reduces the circumference of the contact pach relative to the circumference of the wheel cone. Friction biting on a reducing area should start to rotate the spinner within the boundary of the wheel cone (as seen in epicyclic gear sets). Having a smaller circumference the spinner should spin faster, tightening the spinner on the axle until seated & cone taper diameters are in equilibrium.

I wonder if the 'tight arse rule' (... favouring tightening of spinners opposite to wheel rotation) comes from the 60's where wire wheels had female spinner cones? The same physics says these should be screwed on opposite to the wheel rotation as a female spinner effectively increases its circumference relative to the wheel cone upon loosening. A loosening female spinner will be 'geared' slower than the wheel rotation (... & self tighten in a ‘backwards’ direction).

There are other dynamic forces at work (e.g. during braking / acceleration) but above still seems to apply. With pin drives above may be a minuscule 'ratcheting' effect over time to loosen or tighten a spinner depending on the taper + thread combination?.. My Halibrands are right hand thread = right hand side & vice versa (as per wheel rotation) & no movement whatsoever seen on witness marks to dat (& safety wired).

For restraining an unwinding force on the spinner, physics says a longer lever can lift 2x mass by applying a force at 2x distance. This suggests the further the safety wire is attached from the spinner's centre of rotation (i.e. the tip of the ear) the more restraint a wire can offer at the same tension.

Above made my head hurt, my physics education was a long time ago & keen to see any explanation on here to the contrary...

Regards,
Ady
 
Yes Coop those are better for sure. I have seen wheel nuts that have what I call “cowling pins” used as a locking device as well but the center shaft has to be drilled to accommodate them.
Yes I was hoping to go that route but the center shafts on my car do not protrude out beyond the spinners or nuts. Another way is to drill through both the nut/spinner and shaft but the alignment of the holes will alter over time as you constantly change tires as I do. I considered drilling the nut and tapping for an allen set bolt but that would mar the wheel threads. Oltoff said that there are soft tip allen bolts out there. He’s gotten so good with his hammer that it is not an issue. I suppose testing over time will tell for me.
 
Yes I was hoping to go that route but the center shafts on my car do not protrude out beyond the spinners or nuts. Another way is to drill through both the nut/spinner and shaft but the alignment of the holes will alter over time as you constantly change tires as I do. I considered drilling the nut and tapping for an allen set bolt but that would mar the wheel threads. Oltoff said that there are soft tip allen bolts out there. He’s gotten so good with his hammer that it is not an issue. I suppose testing over time will tell for me.
 
Just remember :_ Right is left and left is right ! or another way - when you are crouching by the wheel with your big nylon faced hammer, the arm at the top of the spinner always goes towards the rear of the car to tighten . Frank
 
Got timed out by the website on my last post.

What you describe Larry is exactly how the Main and Nose LG wheels are attached on the 65,000lb Falcon 900LX I Crew chief. The axles and wheel nuts have multiple holes to ensure hole alignment at torque up with multiple sets of wheels and nuts. The Allen screws are steel with a steel locknut. A thread file would easily clean up the axle threads

If you modded your car this way you’d never have to worry about a wheel exiting the car while driving!
 

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