shipping parts 2

[Andy Sheldon]

Ron

I hope this is in the correct sub forum.

Andy

Ron

Its not any type of dig at RCR. I find the suggestion very offensive.

We have worked hard for 25 years to get a good reputation and are not
prepared for any Company or individual to damage or taint that reputation in
anyway.

When companies behave like RCR anybody who manufactures a similar product
become guilty by association and we are simply trying to distance ourselves
from what as far as we are concerned is unacceptable and damaging to the
whole industry.

I know what you are saying about the new posts option but that still leaves
7% who may not see it and in my view thats 7% too many.

Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Earp" <[email protected]>
To: "'tornado'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: RE: GT40s.com Contact Us Form - Site Feedback


> Andy,
>
> I must be missing something. The post is about Tornado shipping. It is a
> subtle dig at RCR. I'm not taking sides, but I don't see it as a "non
> specific" GT40 post such as "How many GT40s did FAV make?".
>
> Your post is prominently displayed on "New Posts" which 93% of the users
> use
> to find new posts. I know, I have the statistics. It'll be there
> whenever
> anyone makes a post to your thread.
>
> Best,
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tornado [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 3:14 PM
> To: Ron Earp
> Subject: Re: GT40s.com Contact Us Form - Site Feedback
>
> Ron
>
> As I said this post was not intended for those who already have a TS40 but
> for those who are about to or are thinking of ordering a car from
> somebody.
>
> Therefore it is not Tornado specific. Please read the posts content.
>
> If any posts we make are moved to our sub forum we would be better off not
> having it so that our posts are viewed in all gt40 by more members.
>
> Many of our posts are not Tornado specific such as when we mention parts
> or
> new items that would be useful to builders of any GT40 replica. This has
> happened several times before.
>
> Most do not visit manufacturers sub forums unless they already have a car
> from that specific manufacturer and in this instance the post would then
> be
> pointless.
>
> Please move the post back to All GT40.
>
> Thanks
>
> Andy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Earp" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Andy Sheldon @ GT40s.com'" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:59 PM
> Subject: RE: GT40s.com Contact Us Form - Site Feedback
>
>
>> Hi Andy,
>>
>> The post appeared to be about Tornado GT40s so I moved it to the Tornado
>> section. Clear cut threads about one car that we have subforums for I
>> move
>> in that fashion. Not all posts that are clear cut can be moved because
>> there are no subforums - ERA is one example. They don't make or sell
>> enough
>> cars to advertise and have a forum on GT40s.com. Ditto some of the other
>> niche cars like the one from Sweden, Dave Brown, Southern GT, and so on.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ron
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andy Sheldon @ GT40s.com [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:58 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: GT40s.com Contact Us Form - Site Feedback
>>
>> The following message was sent to you via the GT40s.com Contact Us form
>> by
>> Andy Sheldon ( mailto:[email protected] ).
>>
>> --------------------------------
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> Why has my post 'shipping parts' been moved to the Tornado forum from
>> All
>> GT40 which is where it was placed?
>>
>> It is intended for those about to purchase a car and not those who
>> already
>> have a TS40.
>>
>> On the basis of this being moved, the All Gt40 section should be deleted
>> and
>> all posts should be put in the sub forum of the manufacturer who made the
>> post.
>>
>> Once again this was a general post and not aimed specifically at
>> customers
>> we already have.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> --------------------------------
>>
>> Referring Page: http://www.gt40s.com/forum/search.php?searchid=626156
>> IP Address: 79.76.114.107
>> User Name: Andy Sheldon
>> User ID: 10746
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1726 - Release Date:
>> 15/10/2008
>
>> 07:29
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1726 - Release Date: 15/10/2008
> 07:29
>

 

[Andy Sheldon]

12345

 

[Dutton]

Andy,

Isn't email the darnedest thing? I keep telling my staff at work that even the most sincere electronic communication can be a real risk without the tone of voice or facial expressions!

Like Ron, I also incorrectly interpreted your post as a dig and was, quite honestly, put off by it just as I have been by number of recent posts having to do with international shipping. Thinking back, perhaps it was just the timing of the post as opposed to the content.

Thank you for setting the matter straight. I have little tolerance for the sort of grandstanding I read into your post and, without your clarification, it would have been a cold day in hell before I'd have recommended Tornado to anyone.

My apologies for misreading your comments. I should know better.

T.

 

[Randy V]

Andy - I'm not impressed with this tactic.

While you may wish us to believe that you are trying to protect your own reputation - some of us may well think that you'll stop at nothing to make a sale...

As you know there are many of us that have built multiple cars.. This current project is most certainly not my last.. I spend my money and my customer's money carefully. I'll not consider purchasing from any manufacturer that exhibits this sort of apparent cut-throat behavior...

You may recall my contacts with you a little more than a year ago. I was mere moments from placing my first GT40 order with your company when I, instead, placed my order with RCR.
Why? Quite simply - I realized that I didn't care for your brake package (at the time)... Also, the waiting period prior to your shipment of the car was 20 weeks plus close to a month more to get it to the states.

The 16 week delivery time was enticing as was RCRs willingness to work with me in regard to a transaxle that I could actually find here in the States. RCR Beat the 16 week delivery time by over a week.
Were there BO's? Yes. But none that forced me to stop working on the car. The biggest challenge was in getting axle shafts. Two different vendors to RCR stiffed him and then finally shipped the wrong parts (not as ordered by RCR) to me - we finally got a vendor that produced a quality product composed of all new components. It would have gone smoother had I not gone with a transaxle that was not on the list of preferred transaxles (BTW - the list is extensive).. So - I required something special.

Since I picked up my car directly at the RCR factory - I've received all the backordered parts and then some. Then some. Let me clarify. There have been improvements and refinements on the RCR40. I, like apparently others, have received upgraded components and new additional features to the RCR40 at no cost to me..
So when you say;

When companies behave like RCR.....

Are you saying that you would not act like I have just outlined above?

Will I buy from RCR again? Probably.

Will I buy from Tornado? Uncertain.

It depends upon your response and your presence in this forum in regard to supporting your customers. Which is yet another area that RCR seems to excel in...

 

[Dave Lindemann]

Ron

Its not any type of dig at RCR. I find the suggestion very offensive.

We have worked hard for 25 years to get a good reputation and are not
prepared for any Company or individual to damage or taint that reputation in
anyway.

>

Andy -

I'm sorry but this is crap! All of the posting about delayed parts shipments had absolutely nothing to do with Tornado. When I first read your post I couldn't believe that anyone would stoop to that level - or that the Forum moderators would allow this kind of BS to be posted. Then I couldn't find the post and now I find it here. To be honest I thought you had come to your senses and retracted the post or Ron or one of the other moderators had removed it. All of this BS about delayed parts from RCR is just that - BS. I'm a RCR customer and my personal experience says I know what I am talking about. I'm sorry but you can't tell me that you weren't trying to damage RCR's reputation and boost your own. Sorry if you find it "offensive" but that is the way your post comes across - to me at least.

I have to give Fran credit for putting up with all of this BS. If it was me I'd be very tempted to walk away from this kind of forum.

Dave L
HAPPY RCR customer (SLC)

 

[Andy Sheldon]

Crossle43

Thanks for the comments.

Its not intended as a dig we are just upholding our reputation. Its as simple as that.

We had customers reading that thread about to place orders for cars and were worried that they would not get all of their parts.

Big foot

I am sorry that you are not impressed.

You must remember we have been in what is a difficult business to establish a good reputation at the best of times for nearly 25 years, of which 20 have been building GT40 replicas.

Over that period of time we have sunk in thousands and thousands of hours and Millions of pounds to get where we are today. No 1.

If protecting this is going to upset a few people then thats just too bad.


DaveL

No your post is Crap! as you put it.

I am surprised the moderators allowed it.

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

To save you emailing me Andy - I have moved this to your own section also as I still believe it is primarily related to you as a manufacturer and that you are commenting upon your own ability to provide parts / service in general.

There is nothing specific about new items for non Tornado cars to warrant it being in Vendor announcements alone. As Ron has pointed out in personal email - over 90% of visitors to the site use the 'new posts' button to view recent threads and you will get as many hits here as anywhere else.

Finally and sadly too, I see that this thread is descending to name calling etc - lets hope that things change for the better - fingers crossed.

 

[Scott Calabro]

Paul et al,

You should re-read the line under the vendor and manufacturer announcements forum title.

"Information and releases from GT40's.com sponsors"

Andy's post could not have met those two criteria more clearly.

We are a sponsor, and we posted information that is in the interest to all viewers of this forum.

I thought that's what that forum was for, clearly that is what its title says its content is.

Unless there is some other type of unpublished editing protocol/policy we are not aware of?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Andy Sheldon]

Paul and Ron

I do not see why you should be able to just move posts willy nilly to where ever it takes your fancy. Its just not right.

Clearly some miss posts are made like an item for sale in All Gt40 etc. and that should be corrected but to move a post because it has the word Tornado in it is unacceptable.

Why don't you have a sub sub forum entitled ' posts the moderators do not like or that may upset their friends'

You could place it as the first thread there if you like.

As for the rest of the issue 'WHAT SCOTT SAID'.

Andy

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Hi Scott -

To answer your concerns - No - there is no unwritten policy whatsoever.

My reason for moving the post was that it's content, was absolutely no different to the one that Ron had aleady chosen to move here - so my criteria for section selection was based on Ron's own previous decision.

Ron does not have his usual access to the forum at the moment but should he choose to relocate the thread when he does, then clearly I would understand.

Best

 

[Ian K]

Andy,

While agree that this post should perhaps stay in the Vendor and Manufacturer announcements,
albeit with some modifications, the following:

Its not any type of dig at RCR. I find the suggestion very offensive.

does not jive with this:

When companies behave like RCR anybody who manufactures a similar product
become guilty by association and we are simply trying to distance ourselves
from what as far as we are concerned is unacceptable and damaging to the
whole industry.

(boldness added for emphasis by me).

So, based upon your further comments, it is surely a dig at RCR.

Ian

 

[Andy Sheldon]

Ian

I think you are missing the point.

We simply do not want potential customers to think we operate like others be it RCR or anybody else for that matter.

I have seen comments on other threads which indicate that its a known fact all GT40 manufacturers operate by taking money and delivering parts with a ' why do today what you can do tomorrow only with slightly less urgency' type approach.

I do not know about other manufacturers as I am not interested but I can state quite plainly this is not Tornado Sports Cars policy. You pay for your parts and then you get them period.
Thats how you stay in this business for 25 years.

This thread was started as a statement of fact and no other companies were mentioned.

If people want to associate another company with this thread because they do not operate the same thats up to them.

I think Ron was the first to mention RCR in a PM to me.

Perhaps based on that it should have been moved to the RCR forum. Joke Ron.

One individual suggested that we were stooping low to get orders. What a load of rubbish.

We can sell more cars than we can manufacture and always have.

Another said that he would not by our products because of this thread. So what.

If protecting our fine reputation is going to upset people then thats just tough.

I do not deliberatley want to upset people but sometimes you have to make a stand.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Ian K]

Andy,

I know what you are trying to say, but it still comes across as a swipe at RCR.

Even if Ron brought up RCR in a PM to you, by virtue of responding to him
in this thread, bringing up RCR directly, it is a dig at RCR, intentional or not.
And, the further comments you made about RCR in the post enforce that.
And again, in your reply to me, you state

We simply do not want potential customers to think we operate like
others be it RCR or anybody else for that matter.

Perhaps you should have left it as "We simply do not want potential customers to
think we operate like others", or omitted that line entirely and just said "Hey, this
is how we do business" and left it at that.

Timing of your original post also calls it into question, since it was after the
thread about RCR and supply of parts snowballed, that you made your post.
Again, your post was basically made in response to the situation at RCR,
regardless of whether or not you were directing it at other companies in
general. So, indirectly again, a dig at RCR.

Had you posted this statement months ago, before the RCR parts supply
thread started much less exploded, then yes, it would have been easy
to see you were just commenting on how you run things. But, between
timing and follow up, it most certainly appears as and comes across as
a direct response to the RCR issue, hence a dig at them.

I appreciate the fact that Tornado has been in business for 25 years, and
have weathered the ups and downs inherent in such a niche market. And,
I can also appreciate that you will assist anyone with their builds, whether
it is advice or supplying parts where applicable, even if the build is not
a Tornado (I know several GTD owners here in the states that have purchased
items from you to support their build). And again, perhaps the dig was
unintentional. But, it was still there. You could have phrased the original and
the follow up differently, and it would have made a huge difference in how
the statements were received. You still would have been held under suspicion
purely due to timing, but that is immaterial at this point.

And, again, I will reiterate - the original and the follow up both rightly could
belong under Vendor and Manufacturer Announcements. However, the
follow up discussion has really moved it back into Tornado land.

Ian

 

[Scott Calabro]

:sleeping::snore:...

 

[Gregg]

I'm glad to see I am not the only one who thought Andy's post was in bad taste and WAS certainly a dig at RCR. I can say alot about numerous Tornado posts but do not.

Andy, I will leave you with your quotes to think about:

Its not intended as a dig we are just upholding our reputation. Its as simple as that.

We simply do not want potential customers to think we operate like others be it RCR or anybody else for that matter.
Andy

Well, as the self proclaimed "world leader" in GT40 manufacture and being in business for "25 years" one would hope that your "good reputation" has already been established. Perhaps you do not have the reputation you think you do?? Are you unsure of yourself?? Your product??

Your post was unnecessary and appears to have backfired upon you.

 

[Scott Calabro]

Oh wow look everyone, Fran's annoying little attorney friend has graced our forum yet again with his :yuck: opinion!

:bow:

Its amazing how you seem to crawl out from under your Thornwood rock on special occasions.

..... go tune your Jag, you bore me.

 

[Andy Sheldon]

Ian

I am sure that many post replies without reading the entire thread from the start so lets go back to the begining.

The thread was started because customers about to order cars from ourselves had read a thread about customers not getting parts they had paid for from other suppliers.

At this point I will make a simple suggestion. Try not to think of RCR. Why you should I do not know.

It was posted in All GT40s to reasure customers who were about to give us large deposits on cars and were concerned.

This was the correct thing to do as all of the final sales were made.

I suppose I could travel back in time and place the post so that when the situation ocurred months later it did not look like a 'dig' as you and others seem to term it.

Unfortunatley the transfunction inducer on my time machine is faulty so I cannot do this.

Seriously, I am not interested in repeating our position again.

My company manufactures GT40 replicas and I have no interest in running corespondence courses via email on this forum.

I am sure some of you would be better off spending time building your cars.

I am hoping this is the end of the matter but seriously doubt it.

Gregg

As you have direct connections with Fran and RCR, I would mind your own business if I were you.

Andy

 

[Gregg]

Oh wow look everyone, Fran's annoying little attorney friend has graced our forum yet again with his :yuck: opinion!

:bow:

Its amazing how you seem to crawl out from under your Thornwood rock on special occasions.

..... go tune your Jag, you bore me.

Hey Scott, thanks for noticing me. Just to clarify. I am an attorney by profession. Fran's friend by choice. It is unfortunate that my logic appears to be troubling to you.

To me, this is just great public relations for anyone wondering about Tornado and how they conduct business.

I have a question for you. Can you tell me and anyone else who is sitting on the fence about a Tornado car, what today's exchange rate is??

Frankly, I think you are making your own problems and digging yourself deeper.

Falli, the limp noodle. PLEASE, PLEASE try to regain your "Iron" nickname and tell me my penance!

 

[Scott Calabro]

Bla..Bla..Bla

Like I said;

Go tune your Jag, you bore me.

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Ian

I am sure some of you would be better off spending time building your cars.

I am hoping this is the end of the matter but seriously doubt it.

Andy

ENOUGH!!
Andy - I agree with your above quoted remarks wholeheartedly - This thread is being closed - people have had their say - it has degenerated to name calling and is of no further benefit to anyone! !
:sad:

!! To 'anyone' - Please consider very carefully before re-starting this sort of thread behaviour elsewhere / anywhere...!!