SL-R Engine Choice

[Ron H]

I'm looking at a 4G63 motor for an SLR and think I read somewhere on this forum that the Razor is setup for Gen I or II, but not subsequent models. I was going to call Fran and ask him, but until I'm ready to pull the trigger I'd like to have more information to talk with him intelligently (or in my case less stupidly).

Also, as I've been looking at potential sources for engines I see both JDM and USDM. Is there any difference for our use?

Thanks for your help.

Ron

 

[John Ross]

I too am interested in the answer to this and other questions about the 4G63T engine/trans in the Razor. Which EVO unit (if any) will fit?

BTW, based on my initial research on other forums, it seems that some of the JDM engine importers have a TERRIBLE reputation for selling unserviceable motors as "excellent, low-mileage" units.

Comments?

JR

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Buschur Racing - Your source for Mitsubishi racing parts and accessories for Evo VIII and Evo IX Lancers as well as Mitsubishi Eclispe, focusing on turbo upgrades and exhaust systems.

 

[Mobius]

The EVO engine is rotate 180 from the DSM motors also it is AWD only. Not sure if you can convert the tranny to FWD...

Fran have you sold any Razors setup for an evo motor?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

I had a long chat with Buscher racing last week about just such an issue...they are sending me an engine and trans for fitment into the Razor and the GTA

 

[Brad R.]

I had a long chat with Buscher racing last week about just such an issue...they are sending me an engine and trans for fitment into the Razor and the GTA

Exciting stuff!
Will that come in options of both Automatic and Manuel?

 

[John Ross]

I too talked to the guys at Buschur after Fran's somewhat cryptic posting of the link to their website in response(?) to my question about 4G63T used engine suppliers.

They told me that when they build up an engine, they will ONLY do it on the 6-bolt units out of 1990 to early 1992 Eclipse/Eagle/Talon cars, and they need a core to build an engine.

Interestingly, when I looked for the turbo FWD (not AWD) versions of these cars from the specified years on Ebay, Autotrader, etc., I found exactly ZERO of them listed for sale online in the entire United States.

Buschur's website shows they sell stuff for latest-generation AWD Evos but according to their tech guy, when they build up an engine at their facility for performance use, it's a 6-bolt Gen 1 unit from 1990 to early 1992 only.

JR

 

[Mobius]

John
it seems you are talking about two different things there. Fran is talking about placing an evo motor in the Razor whish is rotated 180 from a DSM car. the trans would have to be from a evo to work (not sure how they convert awd to fwd, but i know you can on the DSM cars, per my phone conversation with Buschur apparently they can convert the evo to FWD as well). you are talking about a block for a high performance build and the 90-92 are the best from what i understand.
I like the idea of the evo setup as the exhaust manifold will be facing the back of the car vs the firewall...

Someone please correct me if i am wrong, on any of this info but i have been doing a bit of research on the matter

 

[John Ross]

John
it seems you are talking about two different things there.

Well, maybe more than two but they all relate to one overall issue:

If one wanted to build a Razor with a 4G63T engine in it, and wanted 350-ish horsepower with good reliability, what engine/trans would you look for to start with and where would you look for it?

EVO 4/5 JDM engine/trans packages are offered by importers for around $3000. Tokyo/Sapporo out of Canada have a better Internet rep than other importers, from the research I have done.

Trying to do my homework...

And yes, I'm the guy that just ordered an SLC, but the Razor interests me also.

Realize that after my stroke and subsequent divorce, I had to sell (among other things) my Viper, '66 427 Corvette roadster, and six motorcycles (one with 350HP, one with 210, one with 180, and three with a bit over 100.)

With the last payment to my ex behind me, a 100% clean bill of health from my doctor, and sales of my book and the gun I designed taking off, I'm a bit like the guy that just got released from prison who discovers there's a bunch of cash in his pocket and a brothel just down the street.

And for those who are tempted to ask if I am comparing Fran's RCR facility to a brothel: Yes, I am.

A really good brothel, filled with supermodels and gymnasts...

JR

 

[Justin]

I would contact Fran and Buscher Racing and have an engine/trans built for the Razor, (unless if you're limiting you're budget???).

 

[John Ross]

I'll talk to Fran when I go up there next week.

My budget is flexible. Like most people, regardless of assets or income, I look for good value for money spent. $44,000 for an SLC roller is good value, $15,000 for a V8 barstool isn't...

HOME OF THE HOSS FLY - HOSS FLY FOR SALE

JR

 

[Ron H]

John,

Most of the people I've talked to about the trans have suggested I go for the AWD, instead of the FWD, since it is more robust and easily converted to 2WD. They've also indicated you will probably want to change the final drive gear to make it more compatible with the Razor/Engine setup.

Ron

 

[Mobius]

The EVO 8 seems like a good option as well trans is much stronger. The platform is also newer and has more aftermarket support. cams and a evo 9 turbo will get you around 400rwhp from what ive seen and the stock motor is good to close to 500hp

 

[John Ross]

Thanks for the info! Any recommendations on where to look for an Evo 8/9 drivetrain?

JR

 

[Mobius]

ebay is one place a friend of mine has bought to evo motors (about $2.5k) ( u can get the trans (about$1k) and transfer case also (also about$1k)) from tae auto parts with very good luck. the evo 9 turbo u can find on ebay also i am told 400 bux is about avg. the cams that seem to be the hot ticket are the s2 cams from GSC. evoscan is the program to tune the stock ecu. Shep trans will mod the transfer case for fwd (I spoke with Jon, freshen up the trans is about 950 and 1400 for a quaife diff and the fwd conversion)). That is all the info i have so far, hope it helps.

 

[Ron H]

After much searching I finally bit the bullet and purchased my motor, a 4G63, and transmission. I got it through www.car-part.com. Things pop on there and off frequently so you have to constantly look. Now just waiting for the car.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Well done Ron.....she is well underway.

 

[TimB]

After much searching I finally bit the bullet and purchased my motor, a 4G63, and transmission. I got it through www.car-part.com. Things pop on there and off frequently so you have to constantly look. Now just waiting for the car.

Definitely a good source Ron. I have bought three engines and two transmission from car-part and have had good experiences with all. One was damaged in shipping and they had a new one on my doorstep three days later no questions asked

 

[Howard Jones]

But..........I want to see the Gymnast............

 

[MikeN]

I like the idea of the evo setup as the exhaust manifold will be facing the back of the car vs the firewall...

Someone please correct me if i am wrong, on any of this info but i have been doing a bit of research on the matter

That is not correct, Evolution 4-9, the engine turned 180* but the exhaust manifold + turbo is still at the front of the engine. That means, if you use it as a mid-engine or rear-engine, those are going to be facing the firewall.

People usually use 90-92 (6 bolt) DSM engine is because it has stronger internals, although 2G (7 bolt) engine has a better flow for the head instead. But if you are going to do a full engine rebuild without using the OEM internals, it will be ok using either if you build it right.

Evolution 1-3 engine are similar to the DSM 7 bolt engine but with better internal and higher compression. Evo 3 has 9:1 compression which is the highest among all 4G63 setup, OEM wise of course. Evolution 4-9 as mentioned above has the engine turn 180*, i.e. the timing belt is on the passenger side instead of driver side. If you were to use the 2G Evolution engine, I would stick with Evo 9 instead of Evo 4 for all kind of reasons.

For transmissions, AWD tranny has stronger internal then FWD tranny, a lot of FWD people rebuild their tranny using AWD tranny components and gears instead, because most of them are interchangable.

There are pros and cons between using DSM engine vs Evolution engine, cost, tuning, parts available, etc. So it's up to you which route you want to go instead.