So... where did the virus come from?

Mike Pass

From a market in Wuhan that people have been using for years without problems that doesn't sell bats? When one third of initial infections had no connection to the market.
Or from a lab in Wuhan that collects viruses from bats and experiments with inter species infection?
I don't know but this may give you food for thought about where the blame lies........

Scarily, that seems like a properly researched and verified piece rather than the usual conspiracy theories. The ramifications of this being true is truly terrifying.
the partner of my colleague does a lot business with China and this is what most of his Chinese contacts say as well. they don't believe the bats/market story.

Howard Jones

I think that this was a warning to the US in response to our insistence that trade be fair and they stop violating copyright laws. Their economic is based on copy, steal, and cheat until caught then lie, delay and continue to be duplicitous until confronted. Then attempt to threaten or scare with actions.

Remember the low orbit satellite they blew up and added many times the previous amount of orbital debris causing the rest of the world to protest.

They seamed to be saying. we will do what we want or else.


You may be right, Howard. What's a few million fewer Chinese to the Chinese Communist government?

Dave Hood

Lifetime Supporter
Howard, you are correct about China. I've done business there for many years. Their government and big business (e.g., telecom) are essentially one in the same. The Chinese government is not bound by the same restrictions as the U.S. Personal privacy, limits on data mining, enforcement of intellectual property laws, etc.

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Until we as a nation ("West" as a global community) are prepared to pay for the benefits of independence from China, we well always risk their economic pressures. The example that comes to mind is the "Made in America tag" again. I struggle with it too, but resist as I can, and pay 50%-100% more (as a starting point) for the same goods made on our shores. We've sold our souls for a cheaper product, and incrementally pay for it in greater insecurity year after year. Until we decide to do that, we really have no say in the matter. We've made our bed, and continue to make our bed, but complain about it.


I'm with Terry on this, recently we purchased a lot of equipment for our farm shop and cafe all new via UK sellers all made in China, of those which were 3 display freezer's, 1 display fridge, 1 commercial dishwasher, one commercial fridge and a commercial freezer (maybe £10k worth) every item bar one had faults, the quality is shocking, some did not work at all, some tripped the power as they were wired incorrectly, 3 went back and were swapped so I guess those got scrapped.
It is I am afraid Chinese tat, its all about price not quality, not saying here in the UK we can mass produce stuff at present but surely paying a little more or buying less is a solution. The West has fed the dragon and we are paying for it.
Another instance was a local firm who made really good rattan style garden furniture, not cheap but top quality, we purchased another set last year and when it arrived it was shocking compared with the one we had, spoke to them they were very good and said "Oh we outsourced to China and its not worked out all that well" they changed suppliers and swapped it over 6 months later.
Really!! Price was the same, quality still not as good to us but I guess it made their margins that much higher.
We all see it I think in car parts, e-Bay is flooded with "UK Only" sellers then it arrived 2 weeks later with a international postage label and is cheap rubbish.
Rant over :)

Howard Jones

I'm in favor of doing business with other country's with the exception of critical products such as military equipment, nation security centric equipment and nation health interest supplies, especially life critical pharmaceuticals.

I would insist that we only do business with democracies' if I was in a position to do so. But never with dictatorships, communist's or otherwise. There is some leeway in my mind for monarchies but never to the point that the middle eastern opec oil producers held us over the barrel in the 70s.

What we need is a NATO style series of alliances based on treaties among recognized friendly countries. These treaties purpose would be to insure the necessary supply of critical goods, especially life saving drugs and medical supplies as well as important technology critical to national interests.

Treaties would include agreed sharing of important information of mutual interest such as infectious disease prevention as a right/responsibility of membership.

The fact that china continued to promote fights to western countries a week after they were aware of this outbreak is a clear indication of a malicious intent. The Taiwanese were telling the WHO that there was a person to person transmittal outbreak of this virus a week before the first deaths were reported in China. WHO did not pass on that information because they took the position that Taiwan IS china and china insisted that WHO only take information from them. Taiwan isn't a member of WHO and isn't recognized by WHO because china demands it such.

We all should pull out of WHO and include WHO responsibility's in the above NATO style treaties.

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Today it was reported on FOX News that new evidence indicates the virus DID originate in one of the two bio labs outside of Wuhan...and the Commie Chinese gov't KNEW it. They (obviously) knew it did NOT originate from a "wet market" or from somebody eating a bat.

In short - China has lied like a rug from the get-go about everything.

WHY am I not surprised...

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
China holds 1 trillion dollars in US debt. I think we start by forfeiting on it
'Agree completely.
I suggested that very thing on the FOX website about 2 weeks ago.
Of course, our manufacturing facilities in China would have to be moved back here first.
There'd be other 'considerations'to deal with beforehand, too.
Being able to call for 1 trillion dollars in debt to just be written off by claiming the virus was man made by the country you owe that debt to, would to me seem to be a strong reason for finding a news outlet that would support your claim.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

As the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 spreads across the globe, with cases surpassing 284,000 worldwide today (March 20), misinformation is spreading almost as fast.

One persistent myth is that this virus, called SARS-CoV-2, was made by scientists and escaped from a lab in Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began.

A new analysis of SARS-CoV-2 may finally put that latter idea to bed. A group of researchers compared the genome of this novel coronavirus with the seven other coronaviruses known to infect humans: SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2, which can cause severe disease; along with HKU1, NL63, OC43 and 229E, which typically cause just mild symptoms, the researchers wrote March 17 in the journal Nature Medicine.

Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus," they write in the journal article.

Related: 13 coronavirus myths busted by science

Kristian Andersen, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research, and his colleagues looked at the genetic template for the spike proteins that protrude from the surface of the virus. The coronavirus uses these spikes to grab the outer walls of its host's cells and then enter those cells. They specifically looked at the gene sequences responsible for two key features of these spike proteins: the grabber, called the receptor-binding domain, that hooks onto host cells; and the so-called cleavage site that allows the virus to open and enter those cells.

That analysis showed that the "hook" part of the spike had evolved to target a receptor on the outside of human cells called ACE2, which is involved in blood pressure regulation. It is so effective at attaching to human cells that the researchers said the spike proteins were the result of natural selection and not genetic engineering.

Here's why: SARS-CoV-2 is very closely related to the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which fanned across the globe nearly 20 years ago. Scientists have studied how SARS-CoV differs from SARS-CoV-2 — with several key letter changes in the genetic code. Yet in computer simulations, the mutations in SARS-CoV-2 don't seem to work very well at helping the virus bind to human cells. If scientists had deliberately engineered this virus, they wouldn't have chosen mutations that computer models suggest won't work. But it turns out, nature is smarter than scientists, and the novel coronavirus found a way to mutate that was better — and completely different— from anything scientists could have created, the study found.

Another nail in the "escaped from evil lab" theory? The overall molecular structure of this virus is distinct from the known coronaviruses and instead most closely resembles viruses found in bats and pangolins that had been little studied and never known to cause humans any harm.

"If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness," according to a statement from Scripps.

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
"Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus," they write in the journal article."

That wasn't the basis for the claim that the virus came from one of the labs.
The news report said the virus was probably in its natural form and being studied for legit purposes...but, 'was 'released' due to LAX observance of security protocols on the part of the lab as a whole OR by an individual who was then infected by the virus and it spread from there.
Anyone care to comment on the WHO's complicity in China's denial/cover up? Interesting to note how the WHO President Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has cultivated a rather tight relationship with China, and has seemed to benefit rather significantly.

Howard Jones

WHO didn't do their job when they should have for what every reason. When they were refused access to complete data as well as samples early on, instead of simply telling the world that they could not confirm that this was NOT a human to human transfer problem because China would not cooperate with their medical investigation. Instead, they took China's word for it and said they believed it was not human to human.

Those few weeks, while China froze internal air transportation from Wohan as well as cordoned off the province from the rest of China, did not warn the rest of the world and continued to PROMOTE AIR TRAVEL to Italy and the rest of Europe, they knowingly allowed the virus to spread. They killed thousands of people in Italy directly. Italy is a very popular destination and dozens of flights a week from China arrive there. Spain is another known preferred destination for Chinese tourism.

10s of thousands are dead! This was not a accident. It was premeditated manslaughter...………… best. There needs to be a world wide response to this that hurts China's leadership for decades. The west's businesses should begin to pull back any currently planned expansion, return manufacturing home or at least move it out of China, severally limit travel to China, and start pressing for forgiveness of debt world wide. Chinese businesses, they are mostly state owned, should be considered pariah and the leadership should be personally suited in every court in the world.

The US congress should pass a law repealing the prohibitions of individuals suiting foreign nations (a nice limited carveout just for China would send a great message). Any ruling in US citizens favor could be paid out of Chinese debt service payments. F'em good!

Give me a chance and I'll think of a lot more ways to get some payback...………….for us all.
I am with you all the way Howard . Good to see you are still feisty. I had the opportunity to buy some new Chinese mining equipment recently . F'em .Will buy refurbished old iron from here in US .Things have got to change . Every time I drive over the new Bay Bridge I shudder at the thought of the cheap crap chinese hardware that holds everything together at the abutments . ((Edited out the political commentary - I advise that you re-read our rules at the top of this forum))
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Mike Pass

We may never get the truth of the origins of covid 19. I guess we have to look at all the evidence and make up our own minds.

Randy V

Lifetime Supporter
The bad part about sticking it to China is that there’s almost 1.5 billion people there - most of them are really hard working. It’s the government that is corrupt...

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
The bad part about sticking it to China is that there’s almost 1.5 billion people there - most of them are really hard working. It’s the government that is corrupt...
...however, there's no way to substantially "stick it to China" that avoids consequences for China's civilian population. Nothing truly effective that will force the commies in charge to pay attention. We'll also pay a price for that...initially anyway.

The only alternative is to fall back on the "business as usual" model...and we all know how that's worked out over the past few decades. ;-)