Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I'd be interested in the American comment, sounds grim to me.
United States Budget Dilemma.wmv - YouTube
United States Budget Dilemma.wmv - YouTube
Sounds Scarey!
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
indeed...
maybe they can raise taxes on gasoline like they do in the Netherlands (feel our pain)
1 Liter of premium (Ron98 EU) petrol cost almost 2,-euro...
only 32% from that are the real cost...!
from every 2,-euro payed (for just 1 litre) 21% is btw (tax) and 42% accijns (special fuel tax)
if the US would go with that high price and tax (the don't) you can imagine how much money that would bring extra. (and how many angry people
)
also btw (tax) and accijns (special tax) on cigarettes and alcohol is sky high.
looking at this here
http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/
in the US they pay only 11% tax on gasoline...instead of our 21 + 42 = 63%
and 1 gal = 3.785 L so its cheap in the US (for us Dutch guys)
maybe they can raise taxes on gasoline like they do in the Netherlands (feel our pain)
1 Liter of premium (Ron98 EU) petrol cost almost 2,-euro...
only 32% from that are the real cost...!
from every 2,-euro payed (for just 1 litre) 21% is btw (tax) and 42% accijns (special fuel tax)
if the US would go with that high price and tax (the don't) you can imagine how much money that would bring extra. (and how many angry people
)also btw (tax) and accijns (special tax) on cigarettes and alcohol is sky high.
looking at this here
http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/
in the US they pay only 11% tax on gasoline...instead of our 21 + 42 = 63%
and 1 gal = 3.785 L so its cheap in the US (for us Dutch guys)
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Eight Stages of Democracy: This Should Scare You |
The above link was not posted to start a us/them fight. It was just a nice synopsis of the Eight Stages of a Democracy. Reading those stages years ago I was struck by how accurate they seemed to be. I see no current reason to change my thinking on that. As long as you have people that are dependent on the government for there well being that are able to vote in representatives and vote on laws that keep the money flowing from others to them there will be no fixing of the problem.
I have done all I can to prepare for a for what I feel is an enevitable destabilization of the governemnt and basic services. Whether that is caused by bird flu, US insolvency, or riots in the streets I do not know. I do this for the same reason I carry a jack and a spare tire in my car.
Regardless of which major player tips first, whether the US, a European, or an Asian country, I do not see how they will not drag quite a few others down with them.
The above link was not posted to start a us/them fight. It was just a nice synopsis of the Eight Stages of a Democracy. Reading those stages years ago I was struck by how accurate they seemed to be. I see no current reason to change my thinking on that. As long as you have people that are dependent on the government for there well being that are able to vote in representatives and vote on laws that keep the money flowing from others to them there will be no fixing of the problem.
I have done all I can to prepare for a for what I feel is an enevitable destabilization of the governemnt and basic services. Whether that is caused by bird flu, US insolvency, or riots in the streets I do not know. I do this for the same reason I carry a jack and a spare tire in my car.
Regardless of which major player tips first, whether the US, a European, or an Asian country, I do not see how they will not drag quite a few others down with them.
Well, that about sums it up.
I wonder if there will ever be a time when people realize that you can't tax your way out of a recession/depression, or that government is the answer to all, let alone any of, our financial problems.
Roosevelt established the "voter buying program" that has served the Democratic Party so well, and expanded to the proportions we see today. I believe the reason liberals love WWII so much is that it saved the US from the failure of all of FDR's programs which only extended the depression.
History repeats itself. No one learns this in the government schools.
Roosevelt established the "voter buying program" that has served the Democratic Party so well, and expanded to the proportions we see today. I believe the reason liberals love WWII so much is that it saved the US from the failure of all of FDR's programs which only extended the depression.
History repeats itself. No one learns this in the government schools.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Bob.......the time is two weeks from today.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Interestingly enough, a managed free market with the velocity of money adjusted via Government monetary and fiscal policy has resulted in:
Personal disposable income has grown nearly 6 times more under Democratic presidents
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has grown 7 times more under Democratic presidents
Corporate profits have grown over 16% more per year under Democratic presidents (they actually declined under Republicans by an average of 4.53%/year)
Average annual compound return on the stock market has been 18 times greater under Democratic presidents (If you invested $100k for 40 years of Republican administrations you had $126k at the end, if you invested $100k for 40 years of Democrat administrations you had $3.9M at the end)
Republican presidents added 2.5 times more to the national debt than Democratic presidents
The two times the economy steered into the ditch (Great Depression and Great Recession) were during Republican, laissez faire administrations
From here:
Want a Better Economy? History Says Vote Democrat! - Forbes
History does (a) repeat itself and (b) never seems to back up Lonesome's ramblings.
Personal disposable income has grown nearly 6 times more under Democratic presidents
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has grown 7 times more under Democratic presidents
Corporate profits have grown over 16% more per year under Democratic presidents (they actually declined under Republicans by an average of 4.53%/year)
Average annual compound return on the stock market has been 18 times greater under Democratic presidents (If you invested $100k for 40 years of Republican administrations you had $126k at the end, if you invested $100k for 40 years of Democrat administrations you had $3.9M at the end)
Republican presidents added 2.5 times more to the national debt than Democratic presidents
The two times the economy steered into the ditch (Great Depression and Great Recession) were during Republican, laissez faire administrations
From here:
Want a Better Economy? History Says Vote Democrat! - Forbes
History does (a) repeat itself and (b) never seems to back up Lonesome's ramblings.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Jeff,
All you say is absolutely true, unfortunately the right wing entertainment shows, that pretend to be news have lied so long and so often that our conservative friends will never believe you.
The will continue to support right wing causes and contine to vote for the very people who are destroying our economy.
History will show that Fox style one sided lies are one of the most destructive things in our lifetime.
All you say is absolutely true, unfortunately the right wing entertainment shows, that pretend to be news have lied so long and so often that our conservative friends will never believe you.
The will continue to support right wing causes and contine to vote for the very people who are destroying our economy.
History will show that Fox style one sided lies are one of the most destructive things in our lifetime.
Sure, any chart that manages to put FDR third as the president under which;
"The authors looked at a range of economic metrics including inflation, unemployment, corporate profit growth, stock market performance, household income growth, economy (GDP) growth, months in recession and others. To their surprise (I had the opportunity to interview Mr. Goldfarb) they discovered that laissez faire policies had far less benefits than expected, and in fact produced almost universal negative economic outcomes for the nation!"
has got to be for real!
When ever will liberals stop manipulating data to make it seem like Americans were lucky to live during the Great Depression, which they got out of by dying by the thousands and thousands in World War II?????
Milton Friedman will always be a thorn in the side of collectivism.
"The authors looked at a range of economic metrics including inflation, unemployment, corporate profit growth, stock market performance, household income growth, economy (GDP) growth, months in recession and others. To their surprise (I had the opportunity to interview Mr. Goldfarb) they discovered that laissez faire policies had far less benefits than expected, and in fact produced almost universal negative economic outcomes for the nation!"
has got to be for real!
When ever will liberals stop manipulating data to make it seem like Americans were lucky to live during the Great Depression, which they got out of by dying by the thousands and thousands in World War II?????
Milton Friedman will always be a thorn in the side of collectivism.
Attachments
Amen, Howard, they've had their chance for another decade or two and then we'll have to start all over again debunking the Marxist lies.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Bob, how about you post some real data to back up your claim of "data manipulation?
Of course FDR's numbers look good. He took office near the bottom of the Depression and left during the wartime boom.
Do you have any numbes, or just useless talking point drivel and incorrect history?
Numbers Bob! Numbers!
Of course FDR's numbers look good. He took office near the bottom of the Depression and left during the wartime boom.
Do you have any numbes, or just useless talking point drivel and incorrect history?
Numbers Bob! Numbers!
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
would you stop with the Marxism bullshit? Seriously. No one in the mainstream Democratic or Republican parties in the US is a "Marxist."
It just paints you as uninformed, divisive and frankly silly when you post stuff like that.
Reality, Jeff, the Great Depression was ended by World War II. Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton rode the coat tails of greater men who set the course of prosperity, guided by the policies of Milton Friedman.
Fine, what shall we call it, collectivism, socialism, oh, that's right democratic socialism!
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Numbers please, not platitudes.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Can we cut the political crap and try for some sensible informed answers?
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
As is usually the case, the "political crap" started with Lonesome Nutjob.
AS to that vid, some right and some wrong.
If we had not enacted tax cuts in 2001, EVEN WITH the increase in medicare spending and our two wars, the debt would be somewhere in the $5 trillion range or about 30% of what it is now.
The real issue in the US is Medicare spending. We are not generating enough revenue to keep up with its growth. It needs to be reformed and taxs raised slightly, with a long term goal of a surplus in ten years or so.
It's all very doable. Whether it is doable in this political climate is a different story.
AS to that vid, some right and some wrong.
If we had not enacted tax cuts in 2001, EVEN WITH the increase in medicare spending and our two wars, the debt would be somewhere in the $5 trillion range or about 30% of what it is now.
The real issue in the US is Medicare spending. We are not generating enough revenue to keep up with its growth. It needs to be reformed and taxs raised slightly, with a long term goal of a surplus in ten years or so.
It's all very doable. Whether it is doable in this political climate is a different story.
Jeff your Medicare cost focus does not stand-up.
Here in France our Medicare cost (hospitals, medication, doctors, nurses etc) cost 12% of our gross domestic product (GDP) and not the lowest in the EU. In the USA your current Medicare is reported to be 14%......So we get a cheaper deal through our government’s negotiations and not letting corporate marketing make free with the needs of the (your) sick.
Back to the principal issue of why do our politicians overspend? Our democracies are sick: shaped for the requirements many hundred years ago and functioning in the 21 century:
1) This gives elected representatives that need to make a mark in their 4/5years so that they will be elected again: short term jockeys.
2) Overcrowded houses of representative and senators: what value do 100's of these guy's add to what 20% could not achieve?
Conclusion: politicians are taking-over our countries with their marketing and self feeding all in the name of democracy.
Here in France our Medicare cost (hospitals, medication, doctors, nurses etc) cost 12% of our gross domestic product (GDP) and not the lowest in the EU. In the USA your current Medicare is reported to be 14%......So we get a cheaper deal through our government’s negotiations and not letting corporate marketing make free with the needs of the (your) sick.
Back to the principal issue of why do our politicians overspend? Our democracies are sick: shaped for the requirements many hundred years ago and functioning in the 21 century:
1) This gives elected representatives that need to make a mark in their 4/5years so that they will be elected again: short term jockeys.
2) Overcrowded houses of representative and senators: what value do 100's of these guy's add to what 20% could not achieve?
Conclusion: politicians are taking-over our countries with their marketing and self feeding all in the name of democracy.
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