i hope Fran post some pictures soon. i am excited to see the Apex. i also home he see that a lot of people are interested in this coming to the market.
Superlite GTA
- Thread starter karlo
- Start date
i hope Fran post some pictures soon. i am excited to see the Apex. i also home he see that a lot of people are interested in this coming to the market.
The trunk in back sounds pretty slick, I can't wait to see it. Is there also storage in front?? I know that was the original plan but obviously haven't seen the car yet.
That also sounds like a crazy day!! That's why my xdm .40 is always on my hip though! Never know when you might need it.
Well, you'd obviously also have to buy an Eclipse, but that can come free with the engine and trans, if you shop wisely...
JR
John,
i am fine buying a donor car and parts needed to complete a kit car. FFR 818 is the same way. my big thing is having a kit to work off of that i "want". i don't like the 818 looks and i will buy one if the Apex does not come to the market because i have no other option for low end kit car. for my budget i am fine buying a kit for around 20K and donor for 3 - 5K and if it takes me two years to complete i am fine with that. spreading the project out for a year or two will make the wife happy and think the project cost less.
I have to make a disclosure that Fran already “got me”, along with few dozen of hard core DSMers from the 90's (when DSMs were new), who are now in our 40’s and do not necessarily want to be driving around in our beloved Eclipses/Talons. Many of us were excited about the SC-R, but it is too much of a race car.
I have been racing DSM’s long enough to have seen just how quickly “V8 fans” become 4G63 believers! I firmly believe that it will take just one PROPERLY set up Apex to make it clear is 4G63 is THE engine of choice! I do not think that people understand just how easy it is to make reliable 350-400whp on pump gas out of this engine!
If this is true, PLEASE make this happen! I would rather use OEM designed and manufactured performance components on a car that sees regular street duty!
I have been racing DSM’s long enough to have seen just how quickly “V8 fans” become 4G63 believers! I firmly believe that it will take just one PROPERLY set up Apex to make it clear is 4G63 is THE engine of choice! I do not think that people understand just how easy it is to make reliable 350-400whp on pump gas out of this engine!
If this is true, PLEASE make this happen! I would rather use OEM designed and manufactured performance components on a car that sees regular street duty!
Ever since Fran put doubt in all of our minds, I find myself lusting over this car again. We need this car.
Mr. Wolfe
Mr. Wolfe
Yep me too, I refresh the thread on my phone about every 30 minutes or so. I am dead set on either this car or a mkiv supra with a big single turbo. I would love to shoe horn a 2jz into an apex but that might have to be a build in an sl-c. I will probably end up with an apex with the 4.2L stroker I have mentioned in this thread and then a single turbo supra. Just gotta keep my soon to be wife happy!!!
And here's another Apex tidbit from my visit with Fran, which I somehow left out of my previous lengthy post.
At one point I realized something about the Apex and said to Fran,
"You know, the Apex is the working man's Hennessey Venom GT. John Hennessey realized that if he wanted to build a very limited production supercar, the problem wasn't going to be making the power or having the aero, it was going to be having a nice interior appropriate for a vehicle that cost nearly a million dollars. So he takes a Lotus Elise and leaves the interior as-is. The Venom GT is actually still titled as a Lotus Elise. A longer & wider chassis, four times the power, appropriate brakes, and a body to fit it is easy, compared to creating a class cabin."
"Hey, you're right!" Fran said.
Or maybe he was just thinking loudly...
JR
At one point I realized something about the Apex and said to Fran,
"You know, the Apex is the working man's Hennessey Venom GT. John Hennessey realized that if he wanted to build a very limited production supercar, the problem wasn't going to be making the power or having the aero, it was going to be having a nice interior appropriate for a vehicle that cost nearly a million dollars. So he takes a Lotus Elise and leaves the interior as-is. The Venom GT is actually still titled as a Lotus Elise. A longer & wider chassis, four times the power, appropriate brakes, and a body to fit it is easy, compared to creating a class cabin."
"Hey, you're right!" Fran said.
Or maybe he was just thinking loudly...
JR
I´m in the Line and would buy one as a Daily-Driver beside the SL-C .
I have a question regarding this issue. If the intended engine for this project is the DSM 4G63 (did I get the ## right???), does one have to buy a turbo car or would it be acceptable to buy a non-turbo car and just use the non-turbo engine?
I ask b/c it seems to me that both engines would use the same engine mounts and locations....but, then, I have been "mistaken" before :shocked:
I can see that donor cars might become rather rare if the only acceptable models are the turbo Eclipse...and even then the GSX would not be acceptable because of the AWD drivetrain, so only the GST models would be usable....and I bet there is an active group of DSM fans out there who are willing to spend decent $$ for those turbo cars left on the road.
Just me wondering....
Cheers!
Doug
Turbo cars were quite common, especially in the earlier years (95-97) and they now represent most of the survivors. That is because Non Turbos were rarely enthusiast’s cars, so after certain age they were discarded after first major failure.
But the body, itself is the same, the difference is in the engine harness/ECU. You could find a clean (southern) NT donor for the body (probably under $1k) and then buy beat, but modified Turbo/AWD car for the rest of the parts.
If you are willing to put in the effort, you should be able to part out and sell the parts/mods from the modified AWD car to offset your donor cost. There are many valuable parts that would not be needed on the Apex, but are thought after by DSMers.
In the end, most people will want to use ECM Link for the engine management. ECM Link is based on ’95 ECU. In some states, you might have a problem with having ’95 ECU in ’96-99 cars. So, check first about your state regulation. That might dictate which year shell you should start with to make your life easier in the end.
IMO, an ideal donor will be ’95 AWD car:
- Pre OBD2 requirement – easier inspection in most states.
- Thought after E-prom OBD2 ECU (Yes, OBD2 in ’95, even though it wasn’t required until ‘96)
- AWD transmission (most likely used in APEX)
- AWD parts to sell to DSMers (transfer case, driveshaft, rear end, fuel pump ASSY: ~$500-700 worth of parts, depending on condition)
But the body, itself is the same, the difference is in the engine harness/ECU. You could find a clean (southern) NT donor for the body (probably under $1k) and then buy beat, but modified Turbo/AWD car for the rest of the parts.
If you are willing to put in the effort, you should be able to part out and sell the parts/mods from the modified AWD car to offset your donor cost. There are many valuable parts that would not be needed on the Apex, but are thought after by DSMers.
In the end, most people will want to use ECM Link for the engine management. ECM Link is based on ’95 ECU. In some states, you might have a problem with having ’95 ECU in ’96-99 cars. So, check first about your state regulation. That might dictate which year shell you should start with to make your life easier in the end.
IMO, an ideal donor will be ’95 AWD car:
- Pre OBD2 requirement – easier inspection in most states.
- Thought after E-prom OBD2 ECU (Yes, OBD2 in ’95, even though it wasn’t required until ‘96)
- AWD transmission (most likely used in APEX)
- AWD parts to sell to DSMers (transfer case, driveshaft, rear end, fuel pump ASSY: ~$500-700 worth of parts, depending on condition)
Is this true? I remember bringing up the issue of AWD early in the thread...didn't have much hope that there could be enough engineering at this price point to support the AWD option. If it IS fact, then the AWD cars are THE TICKET!!
I always wanted a GSX!
Cheers!
Doug
Well, since we can’t get Fran to comment on this, I am just speculating
. But when I say AWD transmission, I mean that it would have to be converted to “FWD mode”. That can be done rather easy with a spool or a welded center differential. I am sorry if this made it sound like APEX would be AWD.
AWD transmissions have more clutch options, as some clutch manufacturers do not bother with the more rare (for racing) FWD platform.
Well, since we can’t get Fran to comment on this, I am just speculating
I am sorry if this made it sound like APEX would be AWD.
AWD transmissions have more clutch options, as some clutch manufacturers do not bother with the more rare (for racing) FWD platform.
Yep what he said... I welded probably 10-15 awd transmissions from 3000gt/stealths for guys that wanted the stronger trans in their turbo fwd cars. Most shops that specialize in these cars should have a "kit" to seal the housing to cover the hole in it and then you could take the center diff to a welding shop and have them weld it. Takes maybe 10 minutes and most guys will do it for a case of beer or less. I always got a 5th of jäger for welding the diffs but that was a few years ago when I was 21 and liked getting hammered. Don't do that crap anymore though! Hell if you send me yours paying for shipping to and from I would weld up anybody's diff for free..
Not a huge fan of the color, but that interior does look great. Understated and classy.
Mr. Wolfe
Mr. Wolfe
There is a more rare, all black leather, version of the interior (from the later years), that looks even better!
If anyone wants to start out using stock seats (to keep down the cost), 95's also came with most supportive seats. At 45/40lbs (driver/pass side), they are not light, but they are quite comfortable!
If anyone wants to start out using stock seats (to keep down the cost), 95's also came with most supportive seats. At 45/40lbs (driver/pass side), they are not light, but they are quite comfortable!
That is what I am going to look for, a true all black interior to start out with then suede the dash and door panels and maybe make some CF pieces. Do the non turbo cars have the all black too? I am not going to use the 4g63 so I am not going to buy a turbo car.
