Stock 6 bolt hp record is 749.5 set by Ostar Motorsports. These motors are very beefy.
Is that on stock bottom end? And how long do they last when making that much power???
Stock 6 bolt hp record is 749.5 set by Ostar Motorsports. These motors are very beefy.
Also for those that question the power of the 4G63 motor, here is little video of my car at this years Tx2k14 event. 502hp on a completely stock block with a built head, GT35R, FIC2150's @ 30psi on e85.
Nice setup. Can you post the details on your built head?Yeah that's on a completely stock bottom end. Not sure how long it will last at that high level of power but at my level 500hp it has been in my car for well over a year without any problems. My bottom end is completely stock. I only have a built head on it with ARP head studs.
Nice Setup...Looks like you've pretty much done everything other then messing with the bottom end (down to the calan CC) How is the driveability of the bc280's? Are you running speed density?
So are you planning to stick with T3 and GT35R for this build?
Is that on stock bottom end? And how long do they last when making that much power???
Previous record holder (Mike R) raced his 4g63 from 40k-90k, over 10+ years, he stated out with ~350whp and went up to ~650whp. He has 400+ 1/4 mile passes on his short block. The only modifications are: balance shaft removal and ARP head studs. Though, he does have a built head with cams, spring and standard size, SST valves.
Let me preface this by saying that I was very resistant to the idea of using the 4g63 at first. I have now gained a great respect for it and truly do look forward to using it in my Apex down the road.
That being said, why exactly do DSMs have such a bad rap when it comes to reliability? I know a lot of people cheap out on parts but is that all of it? If I do a complete yet simple 500hp rebuild/build on a 4g63, use all quality parts, and have someone who knows what they are doing tune it, can it be as reliable as a new LS3 or at least close?
:chug:Matt, I'm with you on this. Though, maybe not as hesitant as you.
After reading many, many pages of DSMtuners, and looking at Craig's Lists adds in almost all of the West US for Eclipses; here's why I think DSM have a bad rap: It's a ridiculously easy motor to gain significant amounts of horse power with nothing but bolt on components. And, it's a relatively simply engine design, i.e., it's easy to work on. This leads people (I'm going to say mostly the younger, more inexperienced crowd) to ATTEMPT to work on these motors themselves when they don't have the necessary knowledge. Then you get problems from mistakes that could easily be prevented by someone with some basic knowledge and skills. This translates into "unreliability" issues, which more accurately should be termed "stupidity" issues. (Aside from the well-known crank walk issue that is.)
A new LS3 is rated in the Vette at 436HP N/A. It can be pushed to 600+ pretty easily N/A, with bolt on stuff. So, will a turbo charged 4G63 that is running about twice it's stock HP be as reliable as a normally aspirated LS3 running at its stock HP? Well, to begin with, a turbo'd anything is not going to be as reliable as it's normally aspirated counter part. So, no, a 4g63 at 500 HP won't be as reliable as the LS3 at 436 HP, or even 600 HP for that matter. How can it be? But turbo an LS3 and run it at around 900 HP, then I think that's comparing apples to apples as far as reliability goes. I don't know which would be more reliable at that percentage of power increase, but the 4g63 seems to handle it well.
But, will a 4g63 be reliable at 500 HP? Yes, I believe so. But you need to take the necessary steps to get there. I've read many, many threads of guys running 30+psi boost pushing 500 HP or better for many hundreds of passes at the strip without much problem. The major issue doesn't seem to be the motor, but the tranny. This seems to be universal. For instance, a stock LS7 or LS9 is a little too much for the Porsche trannies used in the SLC. The LS4 (the other motor supported by Superlite for the Apex) tranny doesn't seem to hold up as well as the 4g63 trannies do at similar percentages of power increase.
There are at least a couple shops out there building stronger DSM trannies. As with anything stoutly built, you are going to have to pay for it. But at 500 HP, I think you're going to want to send a transmission to Jack's or Shepherd's to beef it up. That's what I'm planning on doing anyway.
The 4g63 seems to be very robust. And if it breaks, it won't cost a fortune to rebuild one. But, there is enough information out there to judge what you need to do to reliably to get the 500 HP you want.
I'm starting with this book: How to Build Max-Performance Mitsubishi 4G63t Engines (S-A Design) (Performance How-To): Robert Bowen: 9781932494624: Amazon.com: Books
Matt, I'm with you on this. Though, maybe not as hesitant as you.
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I'm starting with this book: How to Build Max-Performance Mitsubishi 4G63t Engines (S-A Design) (Performance How-To): Robert Bowen: 9781932494624: Amazon.com: Books
Don't bother with that book. I bought it and I've learned way more cruising the forums. It's very generic and the pics, diagrams, and explanations aren't much help.
Could really use an update right about now too. To schedule a shop visit, call and talk to Vicki. She'll take care of it.Fran,
Is there any new info? Also, I would like to come visit the facility in April if that is possible. Let me know.
Thanks,
Mr. Wolfe
Could really use an update right about now too. To schedule a shop visit, call and talk to Vicki. She'll take care of it.