Traction control

[Mario]

Just got off the phone with a company in PA. COMPANY NAME. Racetronics. Being that Racelogic no longer makes traction control I was forced to do a deep search, thanks to Joel here on the forum he recommended I look at racetronics. The system is gps based. With or with out sensors. Design for non abs
The system has a gps unit. A hydrolic pump. And 2 wheel sensors and 1 sensor that gets mounted to the trans axel. The system complete is $3750.00 and only uses your brakes. No timing retard or injectors getting cut. After talking to John the owner. This will be the system I go with. He was also so surprised about the fast desicion to cancel the Racelogic system. He admittedly said it was a good system. And now Racelogic refers the customers for traction control to racetronics. So if your in the market for traction control worth the time to look them up.

 

[Pierre]

As much as the website is a bit light on information, this does look interesting. Thank you for the heads up on this system.

 

[Mario]

Give him a call. He’s more than willing to answer any questions you throw at him.

 

[Frank Clark]

For less than that price, you can put in an ECU with built in traction control and the needed sensors. Then not have to worry about pump and interface into your brakes.

 

[Mario]

Thanks for the suggestion. Frank. It’s a great idea. But I’m going to go with racetronics. System. Yes it’s more money. Buts it’s a proven system I like what the owner had to say and they can Taylor the system for your specific needs.

 

[Hector]

Well, just to revive the thread . I do have the racetronics installed but still struggling on how to get the drive shaft speed sensor to compare to the front wheel speed. I tought I would be able to use the unused front wheel drive shaft coming out of the Graziano but the grooves are not wide or deep enough, sadly I found that out after I had meticulously installed a sensor on the shaft . The guy at racetronics suggested I use the transmission vehicle speed sensor output, I wired it all the way to the front and will connect it but don't know if it is going to function properly. I remember Dan Carter saying that it senses movement even when the car is standing still.

Any words on wisdom on how to measure shaft speed would be appreciated. This system was designed for front engine rear wheel drive cars and typically use a sensor on the drive shaft . Obviously on the SLC you have to come up with a different method which I have yet to figure out .

Thank you all for the wisdom sharing on this forum, it has helped me tremendously. I can see the light!!!!

 

[Joel K]

Well, just to revive the thread . I do have the racetronics installed but still struggling on how to get the drive shaft speed sensor to compare to the front wheel speed. I tought I would be able to use the unused front wheel drive shaft coming out of the Graziano but the grooves are not wide or deep enough, sadly I found that out after I had meticulously installed a sensor on the shaft . The guy at racetronics suggested I use the transmission vehicle speed sensor output, I wired it all the way to the front and will connect it but don't know if it is going to function properly. I remember Dan Carter saying that it senses movement even when the car is standing still.

Any words on wisdom on how to measure shaft speed would be appreciated. This system was designed for front engine rear wheel drive cars and typically use a sensor on the drive shaft . Obviously on the SLC you have to come up with a different method which I have yet to figure out .

Thank you all for the wisdom sharing on this forum, it has helped me tremendously. I can see the light!!!!

Hector, the tone/ABS rings below are put on the CV joints. Not sure if your system can monitor both rear axles or it needs a single sensor on the drive shaft. There are two choices that I know of to add an ABS ring to a CV joint. DSS sells press-on rings.

Here is a pic installed on Ken’s car…

There is a bolt on solution as well, See below…

I ordered them from DSS, but haven’t installed them yet. From what I understand you heat the ring up so it expands and tap it on the CV. The part number from Drive Shaft Shop is ABS-GM-10-X9

Here is a link to eBay for the bolt on one…

Electric Speedometer Pulse Generator Ring For Porsche 930 Cv Joint | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Electric Speedometer Pulse Generator Ring For Porsche 930 Cv Joint at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Hector]

Thanks Joel, unfortunately it needs a single reading . I guess I could put a sensor in each rear wheel and my son Miguel can come up with a simple circuit that will send the highest rpm reading to the computer, I am hoping for a simpler solution but nothing so far . As you saw I drilled the hub on the front wheel, hopefully that will work well, I guess I could do the same on the rear wheels if needed or the route you suggested. Thank you very much

 

[Ian Anderson]

Does the Graziano box have a limited slop diff?
if so both wheels will turn approx the same speed.

 

[DaveC]

I'm not following this logic.
Why is the driveshaft used as a reference? The driven wheel can only rotate at an equivalent ratio of rotation to the driveshaft, or less. If anything, the driveshaft would be rotating with the wheel stationary, or rotating more slowly, with a limited slip or open differential. Which is the opposite situation to needing traction control. Seems that the front wheel hub is the standard to measure car motion relative to rear wheelspin. Not to mention this is a GPS based unit, why need a mechanical reference at all?
Maybe I just need another cup of coffee.

 

[Chris Kouba]

Traction control for a 2wd vehicle typically operates off the difference in rotational speeds, so a non-driven and a driven wheel speed reference are necessary inputs to the system.

If there's a big delta, the throttle is reduced. No delta, game on!

 

[JordonMusser]

i use motec traction control, and the algo looks at the slowest of the non driven wheels to calculate speed, and then applies a rev limiter X % above that target RPM. Works great even on 3000hp cars.

This works WAYYYY better than systems that to a front and rear comparison because it doesn't require feedback

 

[DaveC]

algo looks at the slowest of the non driven wheels

So it's just comparing the front wheel hub speed to the engine rpm? So it knows which gear you are in?

Regardless, how does this RaceTronics use the driveshaft rotation rpm to do traction control?

 

[DaveC]

Thinking more about this, could the sensor on the driveshaft is simply an 'on switch' for the unit to detect intention to move forward from a standstill? To compensate for lag in GPS accuracy to detect the initial forward motion, those first milliseconds? But a rear hub sensor would accomplish the same thing. Does the unit require that you program your axle gear ratio (for standard rwd layout)?

 

[Frank Clark]

I have that "cheap" trigger wheel with only 16 teeth or so. Works fine for VSS. But I'd expect you want the ABS tone wheel (more teeth) for traction control. Keep in mind you are measure axle speed which is about 1/3 of a typical RWD driveshaft speed.

 

[Steven Lobel]

Hector, the tone/ABS rings below are put on the CV joints. Not sure if your system can monitor both rear axles or it needs a single sensor on the drive shaft. There are two choices that I know of to add an ABS ring to a CV joint. DSS sells press-on rings.

Here is a pic installed on Ken’s car…
View attachment 124640

There is a bolt on solution as well, See below…
View attachment 124641


I ordered them from DSS, but haven’t installed them yet. From what I understand you heat the ring up so it expands and tap it on the CV. The part number from Drive Shaft Shop is ABS-GM-10-X9

Here is a link to eBay for the bolt on one…

Electric Speedometer Pulse Generator Ring For Porsche 930 Cv Joint | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Electric Speedometer Pulse Generator Ring For Porsche 930 Cv Joint at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Some where in my build thread I have pics of this getting done. Bake in the oven for a bit and they do slide right on.

 

[JordonMusser]

So it's just comparing the front wheel hub speed to the engine rpm? So it knows which gear you are in?

Regardless, how does this RaceTronics use the driveshaft rotation rpm to do traction control?

That is correct. It also calculates gear (RPM vs rear wheel speed, so spinning doesn't effect that only a slipping clutch would) or you can use a gear input switch of course.

it works REALLY well. 3000hp+ Vipers (probably fastest RWD street cars out there) pretty much all run it and hook well. my car makes 1400rwhp+ and hooks well, (RWD 3300lbs)