V6 in sl-c???
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Howard Jones
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I built my 500HP gen 1 SBC for about $5K. If you can't afford that then I would recommend you don't do a top of the line kit car like and SLC and others like it.
V6's belong in Miata's
V6's belong in Miata's
How much HP and Torque can you make with one in endurance tune?
If I were you and I have some money to throw around and wanted to keep it a v6 I would have to go with the 3.5 ecoboost v6 from ford. It would cost about 8000 crate motor and is in the same weight range as a crate ls3 which is 420-450. The ecoboost produces; I believe on the crank 365 hp and 420 ft-lbs. The ls3 cost about 6300 produces 430 hp and 424 ft-lbs. It all depends on how much you want to spend and what route you would like to go. There is a guy if you research on the sho forums or flex forums he is running about 600 hp in his flex. With medium mods you could quickly hit the upper 400 hp range on the ecoboost platform. The new 2017 Ford Gt is using the ecoboost platform with 600 hp from the factory so that says a good amount to me about the engine. Just wanted to give you all the info I know on the ecoboost so far. :book:
But this is all my 0.02 and your choice is your choice. I have seen most go with the ls3 due to the cost and availability of parts. J
But this is all my 0.02 and your choice is your choice. I have seen most go with the ls3 due to the cost and availability of parts. J
V6's are typically rougher running engines than V8's. Way back in the day of 914's, many a transaxle was broken with V6's like the Buick 3.8. For equal hp, the V6 is harder on gears than a V8.
If you want really light at a decent cost, think Range Rover V8. Not big hp (but for that go take out 6.0/6.2 GM) but would rival most V6. The little V8 sounds better and be a lot smoother. Plus if funds open up in future.....Webers on an Aluminum 4.2 looks killer.
Awful lot of cheap take out V8's out there today to use a V6 on cost basis alone. I'm not sure the minimal weight saved would offset the torque deficit in such a capable chassis. Don't take me wrong as I have a couple 2100lb 911's in the shed, but with the foot print/aero/ and tire package of SLC.....I'm not seeing the advantage. Stick a beater LS/Coyote in her. When it dies 100k miles down the road, upgrade
Again, just my .02
If you want really light at a decent cost, think Range Rover V8. Not big hp (but for that go take out 6.0/6.2 GM) but would rival most V6. The little V8 sounds better and be a lot smoother. Plus if funds open up in future.....Webers on an Aluminum 4.2 looks killer.
Awful lot of cheap take out V8's out there today to use a V6 on cost basis alone. I'm not sure the minimal weight saved would offset the torque deficit in such a capable chassis. Don't take me wrong as I have a couple 2100lb 911's in the shed, but with the foot print/aero/ and tire package of SLC.....I'm not seeing the advantage. Stick a beater LS/Coyote in her. When it dies 100k miles down the road, upgrade
Again, just my .02I pondered a V6 for a while as I have extra ones around me. The Toyota 3mzfe makes about 250hp NA and the block is really strong so with some work you can make 500-700hp with boost. Just depends on what you are looking for.
I am now going with a 1uzfe twin turbo. In stock form with headers and a good intake it only makes a bit of 300rwhp NA or about 350-400 at the crank. Same basic head and block design as the V6 and a 4.0L instead of 3.3L. It has a good stroke to rev high. My build budget is 5K with everything at first with 7-12psi and I am just a bit under right now. I would think you could do the same budget and a little less power with the v6. This includes turbos, megasquit 3 pro, etc. I will have around 500-550 WHP in what I call stage I or about 550-600 crank hp for 6K.
Stage II will be forged con rods, forged pistons, MLS HG, port and polish, reground cams, shimless buckets, valve springs, ARP studs. This will make it so I can boost to 18-20 psi. This should be in the 700-800whp range. This will add about 3-4K to it so we will see how 500whp feels first. This setup will also be able to rev to like 9K or more without a problem. So for $8-9K tons of hp, twin turbo feel rev to the moon.
Stage III would be all the above and replacing the T3/T4 turbos with Borg Wagner EFI ceramic ball bearing turbos that are efficient and spool really fast.
Now the question is why V6 instead of V8? The weight difference is not all that much and the 1uzfe cost is the cheaper and I would not think you would really notice it all that much.
I went cheap now as I ran out of money after spending my budget on my trans and do not want to wait another year or two saving up money for the dream engine. The funny thing is after driving this a high revving V8 twin turbo making 600whp in a 2500lb car might just be all the dream engine I could want. We will see.
I am now going with a 1uzfe twin turbo. In stock form with headers and a good intake it only makes a bit of 300rwhp NA or about 350-400 at the crank. Same basic head and block design as the V6 and a 4.0L instead of 3.3L. It has a good stroke to rev high. My build budget is 5K with everything at first with 7-12psi and I am just a bit under right now. I would think you could do the same budget and a little less power with the v6. This includes turbos, megasquit 3 pro, etc. I will have around 500-550 WHP in what I call stage I or about 550-600 crank hp for 6K.
Stage II will be forged con rods, forged pistons, MLS HG, port and polish, reground cams, shimless buckets, valve springs, ARP studs. This will make it so I can boost to 18-20 psi. This should be in the 700-800whp range. This will add about 3-4K to it so we will see how 500whp feels first. This setup will also be able to rev to like 9K or more without a problem. So for $8-9K tons of hp, twin turbo feel rev to the moon.
Stage III would be all the above and replacing the T3/T4 turbos with Borg Wagner EFI ceramic ball bearing turbos that are efficient and spool really fast.
Now the question is why V6 instead of V8? The weight difference is not all that much and the 1uzfe cost is the cheaper and I would not think you would really notice it all that much.
I went cheap now as I ran out of money after spending my budget on my trans and do not want to wait another year or two saving up money for the dream engine. The funny thing is after driving this a high revving V8 twin turbo making 600whp in a 2500lb car might just be all the dream engine I could want. We will see.
Nissan VQ37
Toyota 2GRFE
Go.
Toyota 2GRFE
Go.
2grfe is an amazing motor for the size and hp it makes for sure. 280rwhp without a cat and low weight and compact. It will cost you about 3K for all the items needed to get it run, harness, ecu, sensors, etc. It does have VVTI on both the intake and exhaust cam. With a turbo or SC it can make money, but then the budget is blown and the reason I went with a much simpler 1uzfe V8, plus I like the sound of a V8. The 1uzfe has a lot of potential for hp and might be one of the most overbuild bottom end designs I have seen with the forged crank and 6 bolt mains. Just some forged con rods for $750 and forged pistons and boost stupid high. The trans would be the limiting factor and not the engine at that point.
This is essentially a "junkyard" n/a V6 2.9 litre Ford Scorpio motor with Cosworth heads. It was so successful it was banned from competition in the UK by the FIA 4 years ago.
Andy Burton is a farmer who does this stuff in his spare time and he builds all his own engines. I have no idea what hp it produces but I would hazard a guess in the + 400 range. How he gets that amount out of 2.9 litres I also have no idea about but listening to it run, I would hazard a guess that the extra power is coming in the upper rev range. Ironically, he found as much power from a "stock" motor and a lot more reliability than a dedicated full on Cosworth race engine, and of course, very much kinder on the pocket.
If you like engine sounds - turn it up!
https://youtu.be/mh8w1zPte0w
Then of course there's the V6 from the iconic Metro 6R4. 410 bhp from a n/a V6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvDFvLiIqQ
V6's get a bad press but they definitely have their uses where weight distribution and balance is critical.
Andy Burton is a farmer who does this stuff in his spare time and he builds all his own engines. I have no idea what hp it produces but I would hazard a guess in the + 400 range. How he gets that amount out of 2.9 litres I also have no idea about but listening to it run, I would hazard a guess that the extra power is coming in the upper rev range. Ironically, he found as much power from a "stock" motor and a lot more reliability than a dedicated full on Cosworth race engine, and of course, very much kinder on the pocket.
If you like engine sounds - turn it up!
https://youtu.be/mh8w1zPte0w
Then of course there's the V6 from the iconic Metro 6R4. 410 bhp from a n/a V6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvDFvLiIqQ
V6's get a bad press but they definitely have their uses where weight distribution and balance is critical.
Ron Earp
Admin
Naturally aspirated with a standard 3.8L Ford crank, probably around 340-370 crank hp. Using the forged Supercoupe crank and rods could be 100 more but I think you'd need to use the late model girdle on the block. Ex-NASCAR SVO block, 4.5L, then those motors ran 550+hp.
Bear in mind, the Ford 3.8L V6 and Buick 3.8L V6 are 90 degree vee designs, not 60 degree vee motors. They have quite a number of vibration issues that Ford and GM have tried to work around. In our race motors we've done a few things too to quell vibration from mounts to reciprocating balanced percentages. It's an interesting problem and one my race buddy loves to work on - he's a vibration engineer for a large equipment company so we've had some extremely expensive equipment hooked up to the Mustangs measuring various vibrational modes.
Ford's 3.8/4.2 family (and GM 3.8 too) has an iron block and ally heads. Decent motors, but not sexy and not as light as they should be were they using an ally block.
If I were considering a V6 for an SLC it'd be the Ecoboost as others have mentioned. I've got one in my F150 and feel it's a great motor. Stock the turbos are done around 5300 RPM though and that isn't a very racey engine, so you'd probably won't to change that up for something that produces some RPM. Or not - the low and midrange horsepower is great. Probably be a complicated install though unless someone has a standalone ECU to control the engine. Look at MegaSquirt and similar and see if the Ford Ecoboost has enough of a following for that to have been developed.
If not an Ecoboost then I'd look at the large V6s from Nissan. You'll need one with boost or displacement, both would be preferable.
Naturally aspirated with a standard 3.8L Ford crank, probably around 340-370 crank hp. Using the forged Supercoupe crank and rods could be 100 more but I think you'd need to use the late model girdle on the block. Ex-NASCAR SVO block, 4.5L, then those motors ran 550+hp.
Bear in mind, the Ford 3.8L V6 and Buick 3.8L V6 are 90 degree vee designs, not 60 degree vee motors. They have quite a number of vibration issues that Ford and GM have tried to work around. In our race motors we've done a few things too to quell vibration from mounts to reciprocating balanced percentages. It's an interesting problem and one my race buddy loves to work on - he's a vibration engineer for a large equipment company so we've had some extremely expensive equipment hooked up to the Mustangs measuring various vibrational modes.
Ford's 3.8/4.2 family (and GM 3.8 too) has an iron block and ally heads. Decent motors, but not sexy and not as light as they should be were they using an ally block.
If I were considering a V6 for an SLC it'd be the Ecoboost as others have mentioned. I've got one in my F150 and feel it's a great motor. Stock the turbos are done around 5300 RPM though and that isn't a very racey engine, so you'd probably won't to change that up for something that produces some RPM. Or not - the low and midrange horsepower is great. Probably be a complicated install though unless someone has a standalone ECU to control the engine. Look at MegaSquirt and similar and see if the Ford Ecoboost has enough of a following for that to have been developed.
If not an Ecoboost then I'd look at the large V6s from Nissan. You'll need one with boost or displacement, both would be preferable.
Thanks!
I like the idea of the ecoboost but the added complexity and no weight savings means it will really just be a labor of love. A NA V8 will be a lot easier to build and I would wager lighter after you consider all the ancillary bit you need for a TT motor. I am hoping ford releases the 5.2 flat crank motor in crate form by the time I buy my SL-C. An 8200 rpm redline will sound nice .
.When I do get around to building my car, I would be putting the ecoboost in and run it almost like they do in the ford Daytona prototypes. They keep almost all of the cooling for the turbos in the back from the pics I've seen. The only thing I haven't been able to locate on their cars is the radiator. I am still assuming its in the front. This is due to me not seeing anymore air scoops or extract ports.
V6 Turbo, hmmmm
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