Was blind but now I see

Good thing I am a pilot. I am verry aware of the aerodynamics involved and what can happen at the speed I want to go. Thats is why I am taking my time in my choice of car and will incorperate the aerodynamic aids needed.
 
I noticed that the SLC uses QA1 shocks and struts............ From my experiance with mustangs they tend to be bottom of the barrel. Why not use Tokico, bilstein, KW, or Koni?


I was just thinking that too. I looked up some reviews of QA1 shocks, most of them say they don't compare to Konis or Bilstiens. Though I am unsure if there are different lines of QA1 shocks where some are better than others.
 
We use triple adjustable Penskes on the race car .

Double/triple adjustables are available as an upgrade on the street cars too....the double adjustables retail at around $3600 per set

The QA1 on the SL-C is a double adjustable unit, with seperate rebound and compression....they are good shocks and rebuildable.Dyno graphs are available on request from QA1 also.
 
Good thing I am a pilot. I am verry aware of the aerodynamics involved and what can happen at the speed I want to go. Thats is why I am taking my time in my choice of car and will incorperate the aerodynamic aids needed.

Good call Henry. Have you checked out some of the really detailed LeMans GT40 pics of the day? By 1969 the shape was pretty evolved and refined for very high speeds.

And, despite some suggestions to the contrary, Ford did do extensive wind tunnel testing of the GT40 body (particularly the later cars) and had very detailed data from that testing - cd and lift (front and rear) for many versions of the body, each with different iterations of the aero tweaks being tested. If I was you I'd study the '69 LeMans cars in close detail and try to replicate the various aero additions of that era.

Good luck!
 

Ron Earp

Admin
I was just thinking that too. I looked up some reviews of QA1 shocks, most of them say they don't compare to Konis or Bilstiens. Though I am unsure if there are different lines of QA1 shocks where some are better than others.

I too thought the same about QA1 shocks but simply because of the name. No data to back it up, never used them at all, but heard people say they were no good, Muscle car shocks, and so on.

Give QA1 a call and talk to them about their shocks. Ask for an engineer. I did exactly that and asked him to compare their shocks to Koni's and others. The answer - no real fundamental difference, just that QA1 only really markets motorsports shocks to dirt trackers and hasn't been involved in road racing. He felt the shocks were good, maybe a bit heavier than an equivalent Koni, but certainly around half the cost. They are rebuildable for reasonable money and compared to some of the Koni series units, more robust (info straight form TrueChoice when I asked them to compare their Konis with other shocks during my shock research for the stang).

50+ hours later the QA1 double adjustables on my T70 are still doing well. We have the dyno plots of the shocks and near as we can tell they are repeatable and have performed well. I think I'll try some QA1s on my new SCCA stang build - I can always buy the $1500 / corner Konis later if the $350 / corner QA1s won't do the job.

They might not be as good overall as a Koni or brand, particularly for professional road racing due to the Koni support, but they are definitely decent and can hold their own for the money. In SCCA and NASA paddocks there is so much hearsay, not backed up with comparative scientific evidence, it is shocking. People make $XXXX dollar decisions based on someone telling them "yeah, this thing is great, talk to XYZ at ABC and get one". No data, no evidence, just talk.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Shocks are something of a black box and also "feel" is very subjective. I've run Konis for years (not the top of the line stuff) and while I like them, they generally need a rebuild after as little as one season. In other words, I do not like the durability, at all.

Other guys I know are very quick on what some would consider "junk' shocks, so again it's really hard to sort the wheat from the chaff on shocks.

I've done a lot of talking to the guys at Koni (and really no one else, so take this with a grain of salt). They say that, yes, in general, a shock is a shock is a shock in many cases, once you get past basic design choices like gas v. fluid, etc.

The real difference lies in experience in valving to spring rate and car weight, and in designing a shock that can handle heat build up and dissipate it so that the shock and the fluid retain their dampening characteristics.

The QA1s on the Lola seem fine but I'm still not personally convinced they are the "best" answer (even at that price point, you can get Koni's revalved for not much more than $400/corner) for road racing. They may be. Even if you had a ton of shock dyno plots and other data for them, ultimately the only thing that matters is if for you, as a driver, they work on the car and "feel" right. Remember, shocks only really matter on transitions -- turn in, exit and curbs -- and what "feels" right in those situations is often very subjective by nature.

Lots of options in shocks, overwhelming really, and lots of hearsay out there. Koni NA though has, as Ron notes, great support and tons of road racing experience.

All of that said, I tend to believe the thought that shocks are the last 1-2% of amateur race car performance.
 
"All of that said, I tend to believe the thought that shocks are the last 1-2% of amateur race car performance."

Interesting, as most of you (I'm sure) have noticed all of my data is motorcycle based. That being agreed, the shocks/spring setup on a bike is more than half of the total performance. A crappy setup=probably going to crash way before you ever go fast.
My MC suspension tuner is very interested to get myu QA shocks on his dyno, but one thing at a time.
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Shocks are something of a black box and also "feel" is very subjective. I've run Konis for years (not the top of the line stuff) and while I like them, they generally need a rebuild after as little as one season. In other words, I do not like the durability, at all.

As you know, that was my experience with the Z also. The Koni single adjustables on the Z lasted maybe a year. Both were gone within 14 months, maybe with eight to twelve races between them.

On went a set of single adjustable Tokicos, at roughly 1/3 the price. I didn't notice any difference in performance with the Tokicos and the shocks were three years old and still going strong when I sold the car.

I talked to Koni about Mustang shocks / struts a couple of months back. Questions revolved around the 8XXX series that is commonly used in IT, priced around $300 a corner, and the Koni 2817 unit priced up around $1540 per corner. The Koni engineer I spoke with told me 8000 series was based on a street unit and could be valved just like the 2817 unit, whatever we'd need. He went on to explain the 8000s series unit would also last longer as it had heavier duty components inside. "So why use the more expensive unit that won't last as long?". The best he could come up with was that it was a bit easier to adjust (both are double adjustable) and that it weighed about one pound less.

I may yet end up using some Konis on my new car build based on knowledge base. Phil is the fellow I spoke with at TrueChoice and their experience with stangs is considerable, but, I'm not liking Koni durability.

And, sort of back on topic, don't discount a part simply based on the brand label.
 
Interesting stuff...

We had a Penske cannister leak its Nitrogen out prior to the 13 hr race, we recharged it but it has a slow leak... that is the only issue we have had this year....and its out being repaired now.

One of the reasons I use Penske on the race car/shocks and recommend them for track use is that we have the valving sorted and really like the way the car responds....thats not to say that others could not match it , but I am pretty happy with the Penskes so far....and they have been very helpful as far as tech info has been required too

With that said we ran QA1 on my shop car for three years and never had a single problem with them...
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Penskes and Ohlins and JRZ/1s and Motons all top of the line stuff.

Since these things are a "feel" item though it's all up to the individual driver I guess.
 
Well I am off to Dubai and then to Afghanistan. I will jump on here when I can to continue my research. Thanks for the info guys.
 
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