ZF Gearbox Fiasco/ Fraud / Pete Schomer

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Great. We'll wait to see when Tom (who is a well-known reputable and highly knowledgeable guy in the vintage Ferrari world, btw) puts up a post which advises all of us that you have made good on all this and that he either has a ZF transaxle or his funds back, and that everyone's happy. Can't wait to see it. Hopefully soon.

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

We have a on going situation here, and as they say, there are 3 sides to every story. Toms / mine and the truth. It is true that I got screwed twice on the purchase of that gearbox mentioned at the start of this thread. Once on Craigs list and also ebay.
I see that Ade (Bingo) has been banned...I guess he is the guy that screwed me from Scotland.


While searching for a replacement gearbox for Tom I did find a 'original' GT40 ZF gearbox that is correct for a 1965/66 GT40 It's rebuilt, located in California and read to be shipped. This is not the Pantera version. ID is - 5DS 25/0 #212

Price is $22,000
Thank You...
Pete.
[email protected]

Guys, there isn't a lot of information on this thread. If the intent of Tom's thread or Pete's post is supposed to set the record straight I think it falls short of the mark. Why are there three parties involved in the sale of a gearbox? As one who does a lot of buying and selling of car parts it should work like this:

1. Party A advertises to sell a gearbox Party A owns and has in Party A's possession.

2. Party B decides to buy Party A's gearbox. Party B puts money in escrow or sends money to Party A.

3. Party A sends Party B the gearbox. Party B receives the gearbox.

4. Party A receives money for the gearbox.

Which one of these points I've listed didn't happen? Maybe a related question, why is Pete offering for sale a gearbox that is in California when he lives in the UK?

 

[Ron R.]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Ron +1

I dare say the rest of us are wondering exactly the same thing.

 

[Andrew Komosa]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Firstly, I have no association with “Pete”, although I have visited his premises in Chichester, England, and I was really hoping not to get involved and I am DEFINITLEY NOT taking sides here, but this Pete character is accused of fraud by forum participants.

Fraud, as with other offences e.g. burglary, robbery, handling & receiving stolen goods, comes under The Theft Act 1968 in England & Wales.

Theft is defined thus-

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently
Depriving the other of it.

Are we convinced Pete had/has the intention of permanently depriving Tom of the monies, or has Pete been a similar victim of a scam and has no resources to return those monies at present???

I do not know the truth of his intentions, only that it's a peculiar thief who informs his victim of his real name, address and landline telephone number!

Also, it has been suggested that selling goods belonging to another is theft e.g. seeing a gearbox for sale and selling it to a third party with a view as to profit. Is this not an opportunistic business venture? If the middle man's intentions are to permanently deprive, then he's a thief, if it's not, then he is not.

Andrew Komosa (Solicitor of the Senior Courts of England & wales)

 

[Keith]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

If your last paragraph were true, then drop shipping would be totally illegal..

 

[Andrew Komosa]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Drop shippingFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Drop shipping is a supply chain management technique in which the retailer does not keep goods in stock, but instead transfers customer orders and shipment details to either the manufacturer or a wholesaler, who then ships the goods directly to the customer. As in retail businesses, the majority of retailers make their profit on the difference between the wholesale and retail price but some retailers earn an agreed percentage of the sales in commission, paid by the wholesaler to the retailer.

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Are we convinced Pete had/has the intention of permanently depriving Tom of the monies, or has Pete been a similar victim of a scam and has no resources to return those monies at present???

We don't know, that depends on the details of the transaction. If Pete did not disclose to Tom that Pete did not indeed own the gearbox, and, was going to use Tom's money to purchase said gearbox and pocket the difference while sending the box on to Tom, then I feel that Pete is definitely being deceptive. You don't sell things you don't own and you don't do deals like this without being upfront with all parties.

Now, if Tom knew that Pete didn't own the gearbox and would be buying the box with his money, then it looks like to me they're both out money although Pete is still responsible as the selling party.

Only Pete and Tom know the story.

 

[Tom Shaughnessy]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Pete

I wired you funds on a gearbox you said you owned.

You can not produce the gearbox, you didnt own it

Refund my money. 9 months later. Simple request

You may have located a another gearbox, but dont own it.
I am not sending more money your way for this gearbox or any other product. EVER!

You can not produce the original gearbox, refund my money.

BTW my banking instructions provided are sufficient for your banking institution, your claimed of needing an IBAN number was nonsense. I wrote your bank manager, i had Barcley's address on the bottom of the BAD check you wrote me.

Need I go on. Refund my money!

I can attach a copy of the wire and your bad check to a post, if the group need proof.
The CID has copies, Pete can deal with them when they eventually pay him a visit.

 

[Keith]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Interesting, I have always needed BIC and IBAN numbers for foreign transactions without which they will not pay.

 

[Tom Shaughnessy]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Interesting, I have always needed BIC and IBAN numbers for foreign transactions without which they will not pay.

In America (and Canada)account name, account number and ABA routing numbers is (are) wire transfer system(s) standards.

Both Pete and his bank manager have these details.

Barclay bank needs Pete's authorization to wire.
This is yet to be done.

9 month is a little excessive for a refund.
Am I asking for too much?

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

No, you're not, and he ought to refund your money.

Either you should get the goods as advertised, or your funds back to you. What's so complicated about this?

Except someone is stalling, aren't they......

 

[Cliff Beer]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

If Tom paid Pete the agreed price for the transaxle, the Pete has an obligation to deliver, regardless of what may have gone wrong on Pete's end. That's very simple contract law. No complex definitions necessary.

Said another way, if Pete didn't actually own the transaxle (that's misrepresentation in itself if he said that he did....), as the middle man in a transaction he assumed any and all risk that his purchase from a third party may go wrong. He has an uncompromised obligation to Tom to deliver. If he can't deliver then he can refund the money to Tom as an offer in settlement. A US court would likely award an amount in damages in excess of the original purchase price, just for a bit of context/perspective to all involved.

I don't know what an "ongoing situation" is, but if that means Pete is holding onto Tom's money while he looks around for a substitute gearbox then that's just a bunch of crap.

If I was Tom and had paid the purchase price and had nothing to show for it after all this time then I wouldn't waste any more time - I would be finding an attorney/solicitor local to Pete.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

What a nut roll.

Unfortunately, I have some first hand experience with this type of thing as a plaintiff. My father and I purchased a 1960 fiat 1100 abarth from a guy in the NE for about $6,000. What he shipped out to us bore no resemblance to the pictures, and there were lots of missing parts (gearbox, carbs, seats, glass, etc.). After mucking around with the guy for several weeks (what a waste of time) we filed suit in his local jurisdiction. Turned out he didn't actually own the car, he was buying it from somebody else and looking to pocket the difference. We won at the Superior Court level and the court awarded about $18,000 as I recall (litigation expenses, travel costs to the court hearing, etc.). The seller appealed it to the Court of Appeals and lost, and that Court awarded another $22,000 or so for litigation costs and expenses. The seller then appealed it to the State Supreme Court and lost and that Court awarded about another $38,000 (more litigation costs and expenses). So, in the end the seller had judgments against him (with the corresponding liens on his house) for about $80,000. Surprisingly, he wired the full $80,000 to us shortly after losing at the Supreme Court. Turned out he was about to try to list his house for sale, which is about impossible if you have liens. It was clear that in the end the seller was hoping we would just fade away due to rising litigation costs. Not happening. In these situations it's often a test of one's resolve, and those with the bigger nuts and determination (and law on their side) generally do win in the end.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Good for you. The bastard got what he deserved. Hopefully Shaughnessy will fare as well, but it may be more difficult, in another country etc.

 

[Tom Shaughnessy]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Hello everyone...Hi to you too Tom.
I really don't think this is the right place for Tom to start online slander and defamation of my character. That is a real cheap shot Tom!
We have a on going situation here, and as they say, there are 3 sides to every story. Toms / mine and the truth. It is true that I got screwed twice on the purchase of that gearbox mentioned at the start of this thread. Once on Craigs list and also ebay.
I see that Ade (Bingo) has been banned...I guess he is the guy that screwed me from Scotland.
I will be happy to put a end to this and will deal with Tom direct as I have been doing in the past. I'm not hiding from anyome and welcome a visit by anyone that Tom threatens me with...
While searching for a replacement gearbox for Tom I did find a 'original' GT40 ZF gearbox that is correct for a 1965/66 GT40 It's rebuilt, located in California and read to be shipped. This is not the Pantera version. ID is - 5DS 25/0 #212

Price is $22,000
Thank You...
Pete.
[email protected]

Pete,

You are obviously following this thread.

Please tell the forum readers when you are planning to refund and wire my money.

You have gone silent.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Gee, what a surprise. I'm SHOCKED. Silent? Say it ain't so, Pete. Don't clam up on us just when all of this is going to get straightened out and we're all going to be pals again........

 

[Tom Shaughnessy]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Still nothing. Pete must have lost internet and phone service or BOTH....

Hopefully he will get on line soon, to tell the forum when he is planning on wiring the money.

I no longer need a gearbox, bought another. Refund requested

Hope to hear from the vendor soon.

 

[Ron Earp]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

You can see that Pete has logged in over the last few days by observing his public profile. He logged in yesterday so he is clearly has access to the site.

Based on a couple of comments on the thread about drop shipping and so on, am I to believe this "middleman broker" transaction between individuals is normal in the UK? That is, you sell something that you do not own, and, you use the buyer's capital to purchase it in the first place?

It isn't normal in the US, at least, it isn't normal for transactions between individuals. It is SOP for some large US suppliers, such as Summit Racing, but these companies have contracts with suppliers and full disclosure throughout the process. And, they are multimillion dollar companies that have been in business for decades and of course, with a phone call, will refund your money at any time for any reason.

 

[Jon Briggs]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Based on a couple of comments on the thread about drop shipping and so on, am I to believe this "middleman broker" transaction between individuals is normal in the UK? That is, you sell something that you do not own, and, you use the buyer's capital to purchase it in the first place?

No it's not normal. But it's not illegal either.

 

[Tom Shaughnessy]

Re: Gearbox For Sale GT40 ZF 5DS-25 Type 0

Guys,

Loud and clear in an email from Pete "I own the gearbox"

He never said he didnt have it in possession. I only learned that when the ZF gearbox wasnt delivered timely to my friends place and I attempted to pick it up!

Thats when the lies continued to blossom.

Sure we aint done yet.