T&L Engines Quality Control??? - BEWARE! - Page 7

dan · 06-25-08, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac mac

You never did get around to posting your ' dino ' shots-not that Im interested in pet dinosaurs-, but the question has to be asked if your engine ran on a 'dyno' how come the rear main oil leak never showed up there.

Here is the best pic I got of the dino.
Maybe it did show up. How am I to know? The entire experience was a nightmare.
I won drags this weekend with the motor it is very strong. It's to bad it has to be tainted by the horrible service.

Jac Mac · 06-25-08, 03:17 PM

No wonder it was no good, the distributor is at the wrong end,I am surprised it was only the rear main leaking, take it back and demand they give you your 'Real' motor.

Keith 'Baron' Hardy · 06-25-08, 04:50 PM

Jac, you crack me up.....

Gordon Levy · 06-25-08, 05:14 PM

Dan, you haven't stated exactly what engine you ordered from T&L but it was a Chevy engine, right?

dan · 06-25-08, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Levy

Dan, you haven't stated exactly what engine you ordered from T&L but it was a Chevy engine, right?

Yes, 408.

As mad as I am about the entire deal. I do not believe the oil pump failure.
Breakage.
Was his fault. How could it be? Just my bad luck. But it certainly added salt to the wound.

EGLITOM · 06-25-08, 06:06 PM

Gordon

How about showing a real engine ?
Of course in a own thread started by you

TOM

Jac Mac · 06-25-08, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepNirvana

Yes, 408.

As mad as I am about the entire deal. I do not believe the oil pump failure.
Breakage.
Was his fault. How could it be? Just my bad luck. But it certainly added salt to the wound.

You see Dan , you can never give us too much info. Now we know its a Chev puts a whole different perspective on things ( and I am not taking the P*** out you now ). Pumps fall off/break on chevys for several reasons, but one you might want to investigate in this case since it happened so early is the possibility that the pump or pickup has metal to metal contact with the pan when assembled which puts the pump under stress at its mounting point right beside the head of the single bolt which retains it to the rear main cap.

Gordon Levy · 06-25-08, 09:53 PM

Dan, most 408's I deal with are Ford stroked windsers. the chevy's are usually 410's.

Tom, I'll e-mail you a few pics. You can post them is you would like.

Jack Houpe · 06-26-08, 05:46 AM

I have several miles on my aluminum block 427 and most of those miles where EFI tuning miles so its been pushed to 6500 many times. Two weekends ago I drove to Tulsa for the Shelby get together and put 300 hwy miles on it. The only problem I had was the plug just under the distributor for the oil pressure sending unit was loose and did not have an O ring on it, other than that its been perfect. I'm almost afraid to have said that, now watch something go wrong. Other than the wait, its a good motor for the money.

Ron Earp · 08-07-08, 11:00 PM

More T&L engine threads I ran across:

T&L ENGINES IN N.C. - FordMuscle.com Forums

I've never used them but one thing is for certain - I wouldn't invite them to be a sponsor on this forum.

R

Jack Houpe · 08-08-08, 08:55 AM

I read quite a few of those threads and like me, most are happy with the product but sore about the time frame it was delivered. The ones writing about T and L that are totally frantic could be unusual cases and speak before all the facts are known to all. If I had it to over again, I guess I would say NO because of the time frame it was delivered. As far as the quality I have to say it was first class, I have about 1000 miles on my motor with out a hick-up yet. I think Lloyd is over his head with orders and just can't keep up.

Simon · 08-08-08, 09:59 AM

My engine was delivered without the ally flywheel upgrade($450). For the last 2 1/2 months i've been calling T&L to get them to send it on, only to be told each time that they are waiting for it from their supplier. To my mind it's just a flywheel and can't see why there's such a problem getting hold of one, this was confirmed on calling an engine builder here in the UK who says they can get one within a week.
They haven't even managed to fax/email the dyno figures during this time leading me to believe that it's been nowhere near a dyno. I've not yet been fired it up so who knows what's in store, but regardless i'd have to give this lot the thumbs down.

FoxBody RoB · 08-18-08, 08:15 AM

Quote:

They haven't even managed to fax/email the dyno figures during this time leading me to believe that it's been nowhere near a dyno. I've not yet been fired it up so who knows what's in store, but regardless i'd have to give this lot the thumbs down.

I am not writing this as an employee of T&L Engine Development but merely a gentleman who is an enthusiast as well as a builder.
I have spoken many times with Simon here as he is definitely serious about his performance and his car which I can appreciate. He has had some troublesome dealings and for that I appologize however I have done my best to aid him in the endeavors. I know it's very simple for some people to sit at a computer and comment as to the "ease" of finding a flywheel somewhere else however in business, dealers and companies receive discounts by going with certain suppliers and doing a great deal of business with them. In the event anyone hasn't noticed T&L has rock solid prices for the products they put out. T&L provides great power and torque at a fraction of the price of some of our competitors. I know you cannot please everyone and thats life unfortunately. I know I have personally bent over backwords trying to help many individuals and know the "Real" side of the story on many accounts.

To whom it concerns, Simon here has been fully refunded his money and had issues with his email account leading to the lack of his dyno sheet. I can assure you not ONE engine has left here un-dyno'd unless it is a bare bones short block. If you have issues with your engine, customer service, anything by all means Phone the shop and speak to Rob. If not, it is very poor taste to log onto a forum without conversing with someone and blasting a company. I have spoke my peace, thank you for your time and hope everyone has a great day.

"If you want to ridicule a man, walk a mile in his shoes... If you want to be the man, walk a thousand."

MReid · 08-18-08, 11:39 AM

Rob,

As an interested observer with no real stake in this other than wanting to see my friends and colleagues getting a fair shake. I believe the bigger issues are not the ones you have identified, but two much more significant issues.

1. The unrealistic lead times that seem to consistently lead people to believe a delivery date and plan accordingly, only to be horribly disappointed when the real delivery is often months later.

2. The inability of people to reach T&L consistently resulting in additional concern about the company.

Both of these are well within your control. Simply give people a realistic lead time and tell them it is hard to get a hold of T&L, perhaps explaining how to do it.

These are simple and would go a long, long way towards helping people like Simon to not panic and feel better about their decision.

FoxBody RoB · 08-18-08, 04:20 PM

Quote:

2. The inability of people to reach T&L consistently resulting in additional concern about the company.

I refuse to get into a posting war as this will be my last post on this forum however, I am CERTAIN people are able to reach T&L Engine Development as I am answering the phones through a large part of the day. Anyone who makes claims they cannot get a hold of T&L is looking for attention. I do appreciate and understand the concerns of delays and it is an issue we are working on. One thing we pride ourselves on is proven horsepower at a great price. If I was given a dollar for every compliment about our engines and had a dollar taken away everytime someone complained I would be a very, VERY wealthy man. Unfortunately, every company has setbacks, delays, issues with quality as we do not build everything we use in house.

Jac Mac · 08-18-08, 04:32 PM

I have one comment to make in relation to some of the above;

The client has his motor , but no flywheel. The motor has been balanced- but the flywheel had not yet been supplied? Seems to me that some risks are being taken in this area- regardless of whether the motor is internally or externally balanced the intended flywheel & clutch assy should be checked at the same time- very little point in even bothering to do the job at all if you dont.

MReid · 08-18-08, 09:38 PM

Rob,

My comments were not meant to start or even participate in a "posting war" and I think it would be ashame for you to not post any more on this forum. This forum is about helping people to build cars and providing advice based on our experiences is a key part of that. Unfortunately, some times people (being people) get pissed off and post things that are not true or are exaggerated. Sometimes what they post is very true in their experience and strikes a cord and others chime in. I frequent three forums (gt40s.com, ffcobra.com and clubcobra.com). I have never seen such a consistent and continual negative assessment of any company like I see on all these forums (and I hear about on others) than I do about T&L and it all boils down to these two issues. You seem to be interested in addressing this overwhelming frustration, so stick around, take some feedback, and make some changes. Everyone will be the better for it.

Coming in, making a couple of posts that stir the pot, and then leaving is the definition of a troll. I'm sure you are not a troll, so how are you going to address the issues?

FoxBody RoB · 08-19-08, 04:29 PM

Quote:

The client has his motor , but no flywheel. The motor has been balanced- but the flywheel had not yet been supplied? Seems to me that some risks are being taken in this area- regardless of whether the motor is internally or externally balanced the intended flywheel & clutch assy should be checked at the same time- very little point in even bothering to do the job at all if you dont.

Quote:

very little point in even bothering to do the job at all if you dont

Okay, Im going to try and respond to this with a politically correct phrasing. With all due respect, What flywheel is used, how it is bolted on, who bolts it on is irrelevant. What IS important, or vital I should say is the balance of it. Regardless steel, aluminum, billet etc the flywheel is either a Zero balance, 28oz balance so on and so forth... Most (if not all) machine shops have several in stock that are kept with the machine and made to accurately determine the necassary revisions are made in polishing the crank, bobweights, weighing of the pistons etc. No overlooking of the balance or blue printing of any engine is done or ever will be done.

If someone orders a custom flywheel for their 91 mustang, do you believe they pull out the engine, tear it down and re-measure the parts because THAT particular flywheel was not weighed with those components? Im sure you don't.

As for what we plan to do is continue to build top notch horsepower at a competitive price. Yes, we have been sassed for our delivery time. Yes, we have been told certain parts were not adequite. All we can do as a company is continue on the path we have. Sometimes, manufacturers begin using lesser grade materials in an effort to save cost. When we are supplied parts that have never failed up until that point in time, we have no reason but to assume they won't begin to. It's a shame bad batches happen. It is a shame manufacturers cut corners at times and don't inform their customers. If you ever have a problem with an engine, Call the shop, speak to Rob. If you ever have a concern call the shop and speak to Rob, he is there to help you any way he can.

P.S... That being said, I want pictures of that Daytona Coupe!!!

Jac Mac · 08-19-08, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBody Rob

Okay, Im going to try and respond to this with a politically correct phrasing. With all due respect, What flywheel is used, how it is bolted on, who bolts it on is irrelevant. What IS important, or vital I should say is the balance of it. Regardless steel, aluminum, billet etc the flywheel is either a Zero balance, 28oz balance so on and so forth... Most (if not all) machine shops have several in stock that are kept with the machine and made to accurately determine the necassary revisions are made in polishing the crank, bobweights, weighing of the pistons etc. No overlooking of the balance or blue printing of any engine is done or ever will be done.

If someone orders a custom flywheel for their 91 mustang, do you believe they pull out the engine, tear it down and re-measure the parts because THAT particular flywheel was not weighed with those components? Im sure you don't.

Yes, we have been told certain parts were not adequite. All we can do as a company is continue on the path we have. Sometimes, manufacturers begin using lesser grade materials in an effort to save cost. When we are supplied parts that have never failed up until that point in time, we have no reason but to assume they won't begin to. It's a shame bad batches happen. It is a shame manufacturers cut corners at times and don't inform their customers. If you ever have a problem with an engine, Call the shop, speak to Rob. If you ever have a concern call the shop and speak to Rob, he is there to help you any way he can.

P.S... That being said, I want pictures of that Daytona Coupe!!!

Your above post is of concern as you state that you are aware that some manufacturers ' begin using lesser grade materials in an effort to save cost' and that ' bad batches happen'. ' Manufacturers cut corners at times'. You know all these things and yet you are happy to send a motor out the door less flywheel and supply a flywheel later and therefore ''Assume'' that -
A. It has been machined with the center hole concentric to the clutch bolt pattern.
B. That it has been balanced on a machine with a high degree of accuracy to the neutral or 28/50 oz factor reqd.
C. That you or your fellow workers actually checked the crankshaft / flywheel register for runout prior to assy.

Now if someone brought in any motor in a similar state of tune to the ones being discussed here and said ''Jac I have this shiny new flywheel & clutch I want bolted on, its OK to fit it straight on, the writing on the box says its OK" the owner would be given two options--- either lift the crank & #1 piston out and have the assy balance checked or p*** off and find someone else to do it.
Why- I have seen too many flywheels with non concentric clutch bolt patterns, ring gears with runout etc, plus every -repeat every flywheel that I have had balanced as an assy ALWAYS has holes drilled or material added/removed during the process. So much for the manufacturers standards...... thats why I wont take the easy way out in this case, the aggro a few monthes later is not worth it, the client concerned usually develops selective memory loss about the time it all turns to custard and then gets on a Forum like this one to make life hell for you!

Since I live in a different country I have nothing to lose or gain from this discussion other than advise or comment when others raise questions, some of the posts raise issues that I feel customers may have contributed to the problem they have and if I think this is the case I usually tell them so. It is a forum for like minded individuals to help solve problems after all .

PS. Im sure its Marks Daytona Coupe you want pics of!!

FoxBody RoB · 08-20-08, 08:00 AM

Quote:

When we are supplied parts that have never failed up until that point in time, we have no reason but to assume they won't begin to

Quote:

Your above post is of concern as you state that you are aware that some manufacturers ' begin using lesser grade materials in an effort to save cost' and that ' bad batches happen'. ' Manufacturers cut corners at times'. You know all these things and yet you are happy to send a motor out the door less flywheel and supply a flywheel later and therefore ''Assume'' that

That is in regards to items as rocker arms, other parts that work great then suddenly manufacturers cut back on their procedures...

I see a valid point where you're cross examining my words here however we have a very advanced balancing machine here and when we receive flywheels, flexplates they are checked.