SPF GT40 handling?

[Somelee]

this is more of what i was looking for in a response. i actually dont care to competitively race the vehicle, but wanted to know if the car worked well on track days and for spirited back roads driving...how the car reacted to speeds well into the triple digits, how the car brakes, turns, and how manageable it was to heel and toe, ie, drive the car quickly.
the CAV, noted that it needs setup work, does not sound like a lot of fun nor does it sound safe to drive at the track or "spirited back roads."
does anyone "DRIVE" these cars, or does everyone baby them to death?

A drivers experience level will ultimately dictate what will be needed of the car. The track will also dictate what is wanted or needed. And believe me thats a moving target!There are no absolutes.
If i told you that my car feels stable above 120 does that mean yours will? If I told you heel toe is comfortable for me or that the brakes are great under hard breaking would that mean you would experience the same thing on your car?
A good driver can find the limit of the car quickly and from that translate it into what might be needed to bring it to the next level of performance. One of my good friends is a very competent driver and also has a VERY good understanding of suspension setup.He took a $3000 Miata and put $2000 into the suspension and can hang with GT3RS's, Z06's, Ferrari's etc. on most road courses.
I race a Radical SR3. Am I going to get my SPF to be competitive with that? No but I am confident that with more track time in it and some experimentation that the car can come to a level that will be more fun and safer. That being said I think the car doesn't require hundreds of thousands of dollars beyond what the build cost is to have a fun little weekend track car. It's not really a competitive race car out of the box....but it is a beautiful, viscerally gratifying machine with a history that makes me smile every time I drive it.

 

[mike]

A drivers experience level will ultimately dictate what will be needed of the car. The track will also dictate what is wanted or needed. And believe me thats a moving target!There are no absolutes.
If i told you that my car feels stable above 120 does that mean yours will? If I told you heel toe is comfortable for me or that the brakes are great under hard breaking would that mean you would experience the same thing on your car?
A good driver can find the limit of the car quickly and from that translate it into what might be needed to bring it to the next level of performance. One of my good friends is a very competent driver and also has a VERY good understanding of suspension setup.He took a $3000 Miata and put $2000 into the suspension and can hang with GT3RS's, Z06's, Ferrari's etc. on most road courses.
I race a Radical SR3. Am I going to get my SPF to be competitive with that? No but I am confident that with more track time in it and some experimentation that the car can come to a level that will be more fun and safer. That being said I think the car doesn't require hundreds of thousands of dollars beyond what the build cost is to have a fun little weekend track car. It's not really a competitive race car out of the box....but it is a beautiful, viscerally gratifying machine with a history that makes me smile every time I drive it.

by and large i agree....but some of the things like the car drifting under braking etc point to brake and or suspension issues that can be sorted out without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars.
they just need a little time and work to get stuff just right....

 

[Somelee]

by and large i agree....but some of the things like the car drifting under braking etc point to brake and or suspension issues that can be sorted out without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars.
they just need a little time and work to get stuff just right....

I had my car (sorted by Olthoff) delivered straight to the track. The first 300 miles were track miles. I'm still breaking it in so I haven't pushed the car too hard but my initial impression, with no tweaking, is that the car has a nice balanced feel in the corners. I can feel the car lift slightly above 100 so maybe a set of duckbills/diveplanes would help. I didn't notice the car drifting under hard braking....maybe thats just a bias adjustment? The brakes could probably be improved a bit with a more progressive pad. Wondering what some of you are using here. Also not sure what brake fluid is in there but might want to put some DOT4 in to help keep the fluid cooler. The pedal assembly feels pretty comfortable for heel toe though I'm still tweaking my carb so its not as responsive on the blips as I'd like it to be. For me the sorting part is half the fun. Learning the car and the car learning about me. Won't get back out there for another couple of weeks but certainly looking forward to it.

 

[mike]

I had my car (sorted by Olthoff) delivered straight to the track. The first 300 miles were track miles. I'm still breaking it in so I haven't pushed the car too hard but my initial impression, with no tweaking, is that the car has a nice balanced feel in the corners. I can feel the car lift slightly above 100 so maybe a set of duckbills/diveplanes would help. I didn't notice the car drifting under hard braking....maybe thats just a bias adjustment? The brakes could probably be improved a bit with a more progressive pad. Wondering what some of you are using here. Also not sure what brake fluid is in there but might want to put some DOT4 in to help keep the fluid cooler. The pedal assembly feels pretty comfortable for heel toe though I'm still tweaking my carb so its not as responsive on the blips as I'd like it to be. For me the sorting part is half the fun. Learning the car and the car learning about me. Won't get back out there for another couple of weeks but certainly looking forward to it.

thats cool....i cant wait to get mine on the road....
im wondering if raising the back end slightly would help with some downforce on the front....and if so, how much to raise the rear?
will raising the rear slightly throw the ass end out of whack in corners??
hmmmmm.....

 

[Trond]

Hi

I have been using my SPF MKII (with 530HP Roush 427R and ZF) on several track days and some more race-like events 3-4 times each year the last 3 years. My expirience is that the car is absolutely competetive against new, modern cars like Ferrari 430, Porsche Turbo/GT2, Lamborghinis, Vipers and Corvettes. In fact, the SPF is usually the fastest car around the track.

I raced the car against a Ferrari 430 Challenge (race prepped car) with a driver racing in the Scandinavian Ferrari Challenge series, and the SPF was first over the finish-line.

The only thing done with the car is making the original shocks a little harder all around, aligning the wheels according to SPF`s recomended settings, and I have bought a new set of 17" rims with modern high performence tires. The original 15" rims has gotten Goodyear slicks and are now performing wery well on the track.

I have also finished the brake ducting feeding air into the front brakes. The brake problems mentioned earlier in the tread I would guess is due to wrong settings on the brake bias bar. My car came with to much pressure on the rear brakes, resulting in the rear locking before the front. After adjusting the brakes on the car is absolutely great.

When it comes to a race car of this type (not talkinjg about pure racers), things have not changed that much since the 60`s. Actually many cars has become a lot heavier due to security-issues, comfort etc. My car is 1.150kg including fuel and driver. The F430 Challenge is at least 300kg heavier.

I dont think it is nesasarry to make this more scary and difficult then it is. Of course, with expirience, time and money you can make the car perfect - but that is not a must to have fun with a highly competetive car running against the lot. A pure race car with a perfect setup will of course outrun the SPF GT, but with my car I can change the slicks to street tires and drive home from the event.

In other threads top speed has been an issue. I drove my car with 15" rims and the "original SPF" tires from Yokohama to a top speed of 279km/h on an airstrip mesured by laser. I had 1500rpm left to max rpm (6500) but the car was working so much on the high profile tires that I did not dare. With the 17" rims and high performance street tires I have run the car at 291km/h on the German autobahn. This was at night with almost no traffic, measured on the GPS inside the car.

Regards
Trond

 

[Somelee]

Hi

I have been using my SPF MKII (with 530HP Roush 427R and ZF) on several track days and some more race-like events 3-4 times each year the last 3 years. My expirience is that the car is absolutely competetive against new, modern cars like Ferrari 430, Porsche Turbo/GT2, Lamborghinis, Vipers and Corvettes. In fact, the SPF is usually the fastest car around the track.

I raced the car against a Ferrari 430 Challenge (race prepped car) with a driver racing in the Scandinavian Ferrari Challenge series, and the SPF was first over the finish-line.

The only thing done with the car is making the original shocks a little harder all around, aligning the wheels according to SPF`s recomended settings, and I have bought a new set of 17" rims with modern high performence tires. The original 15" rims has gotten Goodyear slicks and are now performing wery well on the track.

I have also finished the brake ducting feeding air into the front brakes. The brake problems mentioned earlier in the tread I would guess is due to wrong settings on the brake bias bar. My car came with to much pressure on the rear brakes, resulting in the rear locking before the front. After adjusting the brakes on the car is absolutely great.

When it comes to a race car of this type (not talkinjg about pure racers), things have not changed that much since the 60`s. Actually many cars has become a lot heavier due to security-issues, comfort etc. My car is 1.150kg including fuel and driver. The F430 Challenge is at least 300kg heavier.

I dont think it is nesasarry to make this more scary and difficult then it is. Of course, with expirience, time and money you can make the car perfect - but that is not a must to have fun with a highly competetive car running against the lot. A pure race car with a perfect setup will of course outrun the SPF GT, but with my car I can change the slicks to street tires and drive home from the event.

In other threads top speed has been an issue. I drove my car with 15" rims and the "original SPF" tires from Yokohama to a top speed of 279km/h on an airstrip mesured by laser. I had 1500rpm left to max rpm (6500) but the car was working so much on the high profile tires that I did not dare. With the 17" rims and high performance street tires I have run the car at 291km/h on the German autobahn. This was at night with almost no traffic, measured on the GPS inside the car.

Regards
Trond

I'm glad you bring this up...as I mentioned in my first post I am going to get 17" wheels as the tire selection is much better for the track....not to mention the more stable sidewall height. Just wondering what width 17's you are using and tire sizes. .....just curious thanks

 

[Somelee]

thats cool....i cant wait to get mine on the road....
im wondering if raising the back end slightly would help with some downforce on the front....and if so, how much to raise the rear?
will raising the rear slightly throw the ass end out of whack in corners??
hmmmmm.....

I suspect that might be more detrimental overall to the handling characteristics. If lift is a huge problem at speed I would think the only true way of dealing with it would be to have a front splitter to limit the amount of air to the underside.....much like the one on the new GT...but of course then you are messing with the original look of the car......I believe this has alreadybeen discussed in another thread.

 

[Trond]

Hi

I bought the Halibrand replicas from Vintage Wheels. Dimensions 10,5x17 and 8,5x17. They know the SPF GT and make some adjustments to the wheel to fit. Tires are Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 335/35-17 and 245/40-17.

Not totally satisfied with the tires. Wery good for the road, but I will try to find a tire with better grip on the track. On my SPF Cobra I have the Goodyear Eagle F1 DS-G3, and they are better. Espesially in the rain.

For really track fun, put slicks on the original 15" wheels. With slicks the car is almost glued to the ground.

Regards
Trond

 

[Alan in Nevada]

I'm not sure why you are critical of Hi-Tech. What should we expect? When the car arrives it doesn't even have tires on it let alone engine and transaxle. Given the wide range of possible rubber and powertrains there is no way the factory could dial the car in.

Go back to my posting of 09-25-08 11:26 PM on this thread in which I stated, among other things:

.......Like any race car, you/we are receiving it "as is" and it's up to the owners to sort out......Not race-ready as delivered, they most certainly have the potential.........

This should indicate that I'm not expecting any kind of turn-key, show-room to track high-performance sports car.

 

[Alan in Nevada]

Hi

I have been using my SPF MKII (with 530HP Roush 427R and ZF) on several track days and some more race-like events 3-4 times each year the last 3 years. My expirience is that the car is absolutely competetive against new, modern cars like Ferrari 430, Porsche Turbo/GT2, Lamborghinis, Vipers and Corvettes. In fact, the SPF is usually the fastest car around the track.

I raced the car against a Ferrari 430 Challenge (race prepped car) with a driver racing in the Scandinavian Ferrari Challenge series, and the SPF was first over the finish-line.

The only thing done with the car is making the original shocks a little harder all around, aligning the wheels according to SPF`s recomended settings, and I have bought a new set of 17" rims with modern high performence tires. The original 15" rims has gotten Goodyear slicks and are now performing wery well on the track.

Great. This is just what we wanna hear.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Great. This is just what we wanna hear.

Hi



The only thing done with the car is making the original shocks a little harder all around, aligning the wheels according to SPF`s recomended settings,Regards
Trond

Ok, what are the settings?

 

[Trond]

Hi

The owner manual for the SPF GT is available at:

http://www.secondstrike.com/Technical/GT40_OwnersManual.pdf

Alignment settings is at page 31-32.

Front:
Camber: 1 deg. negative
Toe in: 15 min. total
Castor: not adjustable

Rear:
Camber: 1 deg. negative
Toe in: 15 min. total
Castor: 8 deg.

Hope this can help. My expirience is that theese settings is good both for the road and the track as a good compromise.

Regards
Trond

 

[Trond]

Hi

By the way, I have changed my brake fluid to DOT 5.1 when the car was new. I had a problem with my SPF Cobra earlier running on DOT 3 fluid with overheating. After changing the fluid to DOT 5.1 the problem was gone. Therefore I used this on the GT also.

And I agree with Somelee; I think the brakes has further potential i you change the pads to a more agressive racing type. The Cobra brakes entered into a new dimension after changing the pads. I have ordered the same compound for the GT. Theese new pads has Wilwood product number:15B-5939K if anybody wants to try. Pads are the same all around the car.

Regards
Trond

 

[mike]

Great info here, thanks T, thanks everyone else too.

T, when you swap the 17s back to the 15s, do you also re align the car or anything as the ride height changes?

i know vintage wheels also carries a 17x11 inch wheel as opposed to the 10.5.
is the 11" wheel too wide?

 

[Trond]

Hi

I do not make adjustments switching from 15" to 17". I have made the adjustments with the 17" wheels on the car, because theese are the ones I normally use. The slicks I have on the 15" rims have buildt in more negative camber in the tire to and that makes performance on the track better without making any adjustmants.

Of course, taking the time to make correctional adjustments for the height change, and at the same time adjusting the camber a little bit more negative would make the car even better. I do not put that much in it since the tracking is just for fun.

When I ordered wheels they did not have any wider rims in the Halibrand design. If they had them, I would have bought the. The wider rims will fit.

If you think about ordering slicks, get some help from someone with expirience. You get the sliks in different compounds depending on what kind of temperature you will be using them in. My slicks are perfect up til around 30 deg. C and no sun. With the sun shining on the track with the same temperature my tires get a little slippery.

Regards
Trond

 

[Alan in Nevada]

Hi

The owner manual for the SPF GT is available at:

http://www.secondstrike.com/Technical/GT40_OwnersManual.pdf

Alignment settings is at page 31-32.

Front:
Camber: 1 deg. negative
Toe in: 15 min. total
Castor: not adjustable

Rear:
Camber: 1 deg. negative
Toe in: 15 min. total
Castor: 8 deg.

Hope this can help. My expirience is that theese settings is good both for the road and the track as a good compromise.

Regards
Trond

Trond:

You're great. This is just the stuff we've been looking for. Thanks for pointing us in the right direction.

 

[Somelee]

Hi

I do not make adjustments switching from 15" to 17". I have made the adjustments with the 17" wheels on the car, because theese are the ones I normally use. The slicks I have on the 15" rims have buildt in more negative camber in the tire to and that makes performance on the track better without making any adjustmants.

Of course, taking the time to make correctional adjustments for the height change, and at the same time adjusting the camber a little bit more negative would make the car even better. I do not put that much in it since the tracking is just for fun.

When I ordered wheels they did not have any wider rims in the Halibrand design. If they had them, I would have bought the. The wider rims will fit.

If you think about ordering slicks, get some help from someone with expirience. You get the sliks in different compounds depending on what kind of temperature you will be using them in. My slicks are perfect up til around 30 deg. C and no sun. With the sun shining on the track with the same temperature my tires get a little slippery.

Regards
Trond

though I have yet to try them on the 40 I have had good luck with the Hoosier R6 DOT tire. The compound isn't as soft as on the A6's so they last longer. They are specifically for road race courses. I wouldn't recommend using them on the street.

 

[Tim Kay]

.....the Hoosier R6 DOT tire. The compound isn't as soft as on the A6's so they last longer. They are specifically for road race courses. I wouldn't recommend using them on the street.

:stunned: I see no reason not to. I use them on the street exclusively, (not by choice of course but just no time to track right now :laugh and they work fine for me. I surely don't drive in the wet though.

 

[Somelee]

thats cool....I have a few friends who do the same.My statement was more of a generalized one. If you aren't going to ever drive in the rain and you don't mind the possibility of the stickier tires picking up debris and flinging it onto your car than they are probably ok. They also need to be fairly warmed up to be fully functional....so depending on where someone lives and what time of year....and their skill to power to weight ratio there are many factors that could make the tires unsafe. I admire anyone that can do it....because they are great tires.

 

[Trond]

Hi

It would be nice to hear what expirience others have using the car on the race track. Not to mention learning about any modifications made to the car and setup.

On my car the steering connection rods already are worn out. I have changed them, but also the other suspension balls are starting to wear out. Anyone else with this expirience?

Regards
Trond