Keith,
Thanks, for what it is worth I believe you have hit the nail on the head again, and are a Gentleman and a Scholar.
The perfect quote - political in nature
- Thread starter Big-Foot
- Start date
Keith,
Thanks, for what it is worth I believe you have hit the nail on the head again, and are a Gentleman and a Scholar.
If this were Facebook I would hit the "like" button. Well said.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Keith,
If you had paid attention, I certinally did not call all Doctors stupid, what I said about Dr Meletion is: "For a Doctor you are stupid" (as Doctors in general are fairly smart). Here are my reasons for saying that.
Dr Meletion stated over and over that he alone, picked up the cost for the medical care he provides to unisured patients or patients that do not pay.
Either he is mistaken, or we have found the ***ONLY*** profession I know of where the cost of clients who do not pay, is NOT factored into what is charged everyone.
I know for a fact that Plumbers, Painters, Accountants, Contractors, Taxi Cab Drivers, Real Estate Professionals, Travel Agents and Bookies................all factor this into their fees, but not Dr Meletion?
All Professions I know of, factor in non-payment with increases fees. Dr Meletion says he does not do this. He insists that if suddenly all uninsured patients stopped seeking Medical care that the cost of care would not go down.
Does anyone else believe that?
*****************
Then four times in four posts he used the word Socialism when describing ways to bring down the debt, or Liberals in general.
When shown what "Socialism" is and called on this obvoius untruth, in trying to defend his statements, he said: "I never said we have Socialism".
So tell us, why did you throw that word around so many times? When you talked about our "Socalist programs" and how our method of paying down the debt are "more taxes and Socialism", what did you mean?
*****************
Then, When Mark said that I miss-quoted him, which I absolutly did not and both you and he know that, you said this of my NON-MIS-QUOTE:
"Nice....
Classic liberal twist on the truth
"
As anyone can tell, I did not mis-quote or twist anything about Marks comments. I did not quote him at all, I asked a question.
At that point, Is seems obvious to me that for a Doctor he says stupid things, and as Forest Gump so smartly stated: "Stupid is as stupid does"
"Stupid is as stupid does":
Definition: "An intelligent person who does or says stupid things is still stupid"!
If you had paid attention, I certinally did not call all Doctors stupid, what I said about Dr Meletion is: "For a Doctor you are stupid" (as Doctors in general are fairly smart). Here are my reasons for saying that.
Dr Meletion stated over and over that he alone, picked up the cost for the medical care he provides to unisured patients or patients that do not pay.
Either he is mistaken, or we have found the ***ONLY*** profession I know of where the cost of clients who do not pay, is NOT factored into what is charged everyone.
I know for a fact that Plumbers, Painters, Accountants, Contractors, Taxi Cab Drivers, Real Estate Professionals, Travel Agents and Bookies................all factor this into their fees, but not Dr Meletion?
All Professions I know of, factor in non-payment with increases fees. Dr Meletion says he does not do this. He insists that if suddenly all uninsured patients stopped seeking Medical care that the cost of care would not go down.
Does anyone else believe that?
*****************
Then four times in four posts he used the word Socialism when describing ways to bring down the debt, or Liberals in general.
When shown what "Socialism" is and called on this obvoius untruth, in trying to defend his statements, he said: "I never said we have Socialism".
So tell us, why did you throw that word around so many times? When you talked about our "Socalist programs" and how our method of paying down the debt are "more taxes and Socialism", what did you mean?
*****************
Then, When Mark said that I miss-quoted him, which I absolutly did not and both you and he know that, you said this of my NON-MIS-QUOTE:
"Nice....
Classic liberal twist on the truth
" As anyone can tell, I did not mis-quote or twist anything about Marks comments. I did not quote him at all, I asked a question.
At that point, Is seems obvious to me that for a Doctor he says stupid things, and as Forest Gump so smartly stated: "Stupid is as stupid does"
"Stupid is as stupid does":
Definition: "An intelligent person who does or says stupid things is still stupid"!
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Jim,
It's Meletiou, not Meletion
I don't charge insurance-carrying patients, the insurance companies tell me what I will get, and they don't factor in the uninsured, they factor in their profit only. I can charge whatever I want, I will only receive what the insurance company feels like paying. They also have a govt sanctioned monopoly in each individual state whereas if I talk with my competitor accross town about fees it violates the antitrust laws...
I am mandated by law to see uninsured patients. We are the only industry where this is the case. I am also morally and ethically obligated too. Interestingly, the majority of the uninsured patients I see have access to health insurance (through their work) but are young and choose to not obtain it as they would rather spend the money on hobbies. Over 70% of the uninsured patients I see have a smoking habit that would cover all or the majority of their insurance premium
Don't debate me on healthcare, your naivite here makes you sound lost and out of touch. I suppose you have an MBA in healthcare finance or management or practice healthcare law? Yeah, right.
I agree with Nick in that there has to be a way to make sure patients have access, but financially, all countries are struggling with the cost. In the US, there would be little tolerance for the restrictions of the NHS. People expect a hip replacement within days to a few weeks, not months. Ultimately, some choices and rationing becomes necessary, not something very palatable in the US. Finally, a national system does not impart much individual responsibility. That is probably the only way to control cost. Anyway, it's a really complex issue that we won't solve here.
Glad you don't believe me on how we manage the uninsured patients Jim. You've now called me stupid and a liar.
But hey, as long as all liberals are more educated and are smarter. BTW, how many years did you go to college?
It's Meletiou, not Meletion
I don't charge insurance-carrying patients, the insurance companies tell me what I will get, and they don't factor in the uninsured, they factor in their profit only. I can charge whatever I want, I will only receive what the insurance company feels like paying. They also have a govt sanctioned monopoly in each individual state whereas if I talk with my competitor accross town about fees it violates the antitrust laws...
I am mandated by law to see uninsured patients. We are the only industry where this is the case. I am also morally and ethically obligated too. Interestingly, the majority of the uninsured patients I see have access to health insurance (through their work) but are young and choose to not obtain it as they would rather spend the money on hobbies. Over 70% of the uninsured patients I see have a smoking habit that would cover all or the majority of their insurance premium
Don't debate me on healthcare, your naivite here makes you sound lost and out of touch. I suppose you have an MBA in healthcare finance or management or practice healthcare law? Yeah, right.
I agree with Nick in that there has to be a way to make sure patients have access, but financially, all countries are struggling with the cost. In the US, there would be little tolerance for the restrictions of the NHS. People expect a hip replacement within days to a few weeks, not months. Ultimately, some choices and rationing becomes necessary, not something very palatable in the US. Finally, a national system does not impart much individual responsibility. That is probably the only way to control cost. Anyway, it's a really complex issue that we won't solve here.
Glad you don't believe me on how we manage the uninsured patients Jim. You've now called me stupid and a liar.
But hey, as long as all liberals are more educated and are smarter. BTW, how many years did you go to college?
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
You posted this: "I suppose you have an MBA in healthcare finance or management or practice healthcare law"?
No, but my wife and I do own and run two sucessful, profitable businesses, and just like you we work very long hours and just like you, sometimes we don't get paid. Of course we factor that into our fees.
******************
Let me try again, it's a fairly simple concept.
I understand you are morally and legally obligated to see patiants who you know will not pay you.
Now tell me, just like a house painter, you have a business model right? You factor in your costs (office, staff, insurance, equipment.......) and I'm sure they are very high. Then you factor in the direct cost to you for providing those services to those who do not pay (they do cost you money), right?
Once you come up with that number, Then you then add in a profit, right?
I'm guessing you do make a profit?
So tell me if the insurance people only pay for their insured and you are required to provide care for those who do not pay you and ***YOU DO MAKE A PROFIT***.
Where does your profit come from? Who pays for your profit?
Do you charge paying clients extra?
Do the insurance people pay you enough so that in the end, even after your cost for the uninsured, there is a profit?
Does the Government cover some of that cost?
It has to be one, two or all of the above, right?
***********************
Then you said this:
"Interestingly, the majority of the uninsured patients I see have access to health insurance (through their work) but are young and choose to not obtain it as they would rather spend the money on hobbies".
So Doc, do you think you would be better off if those people were required to purchase health care insurance? Would you be better off if everyone who came through your door, paid or had insurance?
If everyone who came through your door, paid you or had insurance would your income per patiant go up?
All other things being equal would the overall cost to each paying/insured patient go down?
***************************
Finally, I will ask one more time!
If every one you provide health care to paid or was insured, would my overall cost of health care go down?
**************************
As to your last irreleavant question, "How many years did you go to college"?
Although you have proven that in the end, college does not make you smarter, only better edudated in a narrow band of elected studies, I have two degrees, and it took five years.
No, but my wife and I do own and run two sucessful, profitable businesses, and just like you we work very long hours and just like you, sometimes we don't get paid. Of course we factor that into our fees.
******************
Let me try again, it's a fairly simple concept.
I understand you are morally and legally obligated to see patiants who you know will not pay you.
Now tell me, just like a house painter, you have a business model right? You factor in your costs (office, staff, insurance, equipment.......) and I'm sure they are very high. Then you factor in the direct cost to you for providing those services to those who do not pay (they do cost you money), right?
Once you come up with that number, Then you then add in a profit, right?
I'm guessing you do make a profit?
So tell me if the insurance people only pay for their insured and you are required to provide care for those who do not pay you and ***YOU DO MAKE A PROFIT***.
Where does your profit come from? Who pays for your profit?
Do you charge paying clients extra?
Do the insurance people pay you enough so that in the end, even after your cost for the uninsured, there is a profit?
Does the Government cover some of that cost?
It has to be one, two or all of the above, right?
***********************
Then you said this:
"Interestingly, the majority of the uninsured patients I see have access to health insurance (through their work) but are young and choose to not obtain it as they would rather spend the money on hobbies".
So Doc, do you think you would be better off if those people were required to purchase health care insurance? Would you be better off if everyone who came through your door, paid or had insurance?
If everyone who came through your door, paid you or had insurance would your income per patiant go up?
All other things being equal would the overall cost to each paying/insured patient go down?
***************************
Finally, I will ask one more time!
If every one you provide health care to paid or was insured, would my overall cost of health care go down?
**************************
As to your last irreleavant question, "How many years did you go to college"?
Although you have proven that in the end, college does not make you smarter, only better edudated in a narrow band of elected studies, I have two degrees, and it took five years.
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David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Mark,
Can I come too? I need to refresh my palate with something peaty from Islay - Laphroiag will do nicely or even a Bowmore. (I missed my flight [the last of the day] from Edinburgh to London all because there was a sampling of Islay malts and the young gorgeous lady was pouring doubles) Some good ones from Jura as well by the way (Prophecy is one of my favourite downfalls).
Dave
Can I come too? I need to refresh my palate with something peaty from Islay - Laphroiag will do nicely or even a Bowmore. (I missed my flight [the last of the day] from Edinburgh to London all because there was a sampling of Islay malts and the young gorgeous lady was pouring doubles) Some good ones from Jura as well by the way (Prophecy is one of my favourite downfalls).
Dave
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Sorry about the spelling of your name, as folks here can attest, spelling is not one of my better skills
**********************
So you want to know if I'm qualified to dicuss business with you, after all you are a "Doctor"!
As to your last irreleavant question, "How many years did you go to college"?
Although you have proven that in the end, college does not make you smarter, only better edudated in a narrow band of elected studies, I have two degrees, and it took five years.
***************
Then you posted this: "I suppose you have an MBA in healthcare finance or management or practice healthcare law"?
No, but my wife and I do own and run two sucessful, profitable, businesses, and just like you we work very long hours and just like you, sometimes we don't get paid. Of course we factor that into our fees. If everyone paid us I'm sure we could lower our fees.
******************
Let me try again, it's a fairly simple concept.
I understand you are morally and legally obligated to see patiants who you know will not pay you.
Now tell me, just like a house painter, you have a business model right? You factor in your costs (office, staff, insurance, equipment.......) and I'm sure they are very high. Then you factor in the direct cost to you for providing those services to those who do not pay (they do cost you money), right?
Once you come up with that number, Then you then add in a profit, right?
I'm guessing you do make a profit?
So tell me if the insurance people only pay for their insured and you are required to provide care for those who do not pay you and ***YOU DO MAKE A PROFIT***.
Where does your profit come from? Who pays for your profit?
Do you charge paying clients extra?
Do the insurance people pay you enough so that in the end, even after your cost for the uninsured, there is a profit?
Does the Government cover some of that cost?
It has to be one, two or all of the above, right?
***********************
Then you said this:
"Interestingly, the majority of the uninsured patients I see have access to health insurance (through their work) but are young and choose to not obtain it as they would rather spend the money on hobbies".
So Doc, do you think you would be better off if those people were required to purchase health care insurance? Would you be better off if everyone who came through your door, paid or had insurance?
If everyone who came through your door, paid you or had insurance would your income per patiant go up?
All other things being equal would the overall cost to each paying/insured patient go down?
***************************
Now you say that you alone, cover the cost of the uninsured, but I am certin that some of my very high Health Care cost goes to cover uninsured patiants.
Finally, I will ask one more time!
If every one who is provided with health care either paid or was insured, would my very high, overall cost of health care go down?
**********************
So you want to know if I'm qualified to dicuss business with you, after all you are a "Doctor"!
As to your last irreleavant question, "How many years did you go to college"?
Although you have proven that in the end, college does not make you smarter, only better edudated in a narrow band of elected studies, I have two degrees, and it took five years.
***************
Then you posted this: "I suppose you have an MBA in healthcare finance or management or practice healthcare law"?
No, but my wife and I do own and run two sucessful, profitable, businesses, and just like you we work very long hours and just like you, sometimes we don't get paid. Of course we factor that into our fees. If everyone paid us I'm sure we could lower our fees.
******************
Let me try again, it's a fairly simple concept.
I understand you are morally and legally obligated to see patiants who you know will not pay you.
Now tell me, just like a house painter, you have a business model right? You factor in your costs (office, staff, insurance, equipment.......) and I'm sure they are very high. Then you factor in the direct cost to you for providing those services to those who do not pay (they do cost you money), right?
Once you come up with that number, Then you then add in a profit, right?
I'm guessing you do make a profit?
So tell me if the insurance people only pay for their insured and you are required to provide care for those who do not pay you and ***YOU DO MAKE A PROFIT***.
Where does your profit come from? Who pays for your profit?
Do you charge paying clients extra?
Do the insurance people pay you enough so that in the end, even after your cost for the uninsured, there is a profit?
Does the Government cover some of that cost?
It has to be one, two or all of the above, right?
***********************
Then you said this:
"Interestingly, the majority of the uninsured patients I see have access to health insurance (through their work) but are young and choose to not obtain it as they would rather spend the money on hobbies".
So Doc, do you think you would be better off if those people were required to purchase health care insurance? Would you be better off if everyone who came through your door, paid or had insurance?
If everyone who came through your door, paid you or had insurance would your income per patiant go up?
All other things being equal would the overall cost to each paying/insured patient go down?
***************************
Now you say that you alone, cover the cost of the uninsured, but I am certin that some of my very high Health Care cost goes to cover uninsured patiants.
Finally, I will ask one more time!
If every one who is provided with health care either paid or was insured, would my very high, overall cost of health care go down?
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Please remember the Rum Runner's motors are always warmed and ready for action. If it keeps raining, you might be glad to know me...:thumbsup:
Jim,
Discussing healthcare policy with you is a bit futile. Your questions and suppositions above indicate you're inexperienced (I wouldn't expect you to be!). There are so many inaccuracies in everything you've said and so many false assumptions I don't know where to begin.
Safe to say you fail to understand that, while I "charge" patients a fee, I am reimbursed whatever the third party payor deems appropriate. I have no say/control in that. They factor in their costs only, not what % of uninsured patients I see. If I run an inefficient practice, I'm out of business and that is that (many MD's have sold out to hospitals as a result recently). The charity work I do is just that, and what it costs me is time away from my family, that's all. I estimate I need to work 60-80 hours a week efficiently in order to stay in business. The charity work is on top of that. It's that simple, lost labor, lost time (but no loss of risk).
Obviously neither of your degrees is in healthcare.
BTW, you've misquoted 3 people on this board. They've all pointed it out and you refuse to acknowledge it let alone apologize. I think that speaks volumes....
Discussing healthcare policy with you is a bit futile. Your questions and suppositions above indicate you're inexperienced (I wouldn't expect you to be!). There are so many inaccuracies in everything you've said and so many false assumptions I don't know where to begin.
Safe to say you fail to understand that, while I "charge" patients a fee, I am reimbursed whatever the third party payor deems appropriate. I have no say/control in that. They factor in their costs only, not what % of uninsured patients I see. If I run an inefficient practice, I'm out of business and that is that (many MD's have sold out to hospitals as a result recently). The charity work I do is just that, and what it costs me is time away from my family, that's all. I estimate I need to work 60-80 hours a week efficiently in order to stay in business. The charity work is on top of that. It's that simple, lost labor, lost time (but no loss of risk).
Obviously neither of your degrees is in healthcare.
BTW, you've misquoted 3 people on this board. They've all pointed it out and you refuse to acknowledge it let alone apologize. I think that speaks volumes....
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
So Steve,
In a discussion about the huge debt, run up by Reagan/BushII, you said this in their defence:
"At least Reagan and Bush gave some lip service to cutting spending. Obama doesn't even try". (exact quote, cut and pasted)
So Reagan/BushII cut taxes and increased spending, but that's OK because they "paid lip service" to cutting spending?
Of course you mean they just talked about cutting spending, while at the same time they were increasing it. You think that is somthing to aspire to?
Where I come from we call that not telling the truth!
But Obama didn't even try and lie about cutting spending and you don't like that?
Steve, when you say stupid stuff like that, what conclusion are we to draw?
In a discussion about the huge debt, run up by Reagan/BushII, you said this in their defence:
"At least Reagan and Bush gave some lip service to cutting spending. Obama doesn't even try". (exact quote, cut and pasted)
So Reagan/BushII cut taxes and increased spending, but that's OK because they "paid lip service" to cutting spending?
Of course you mean they just talked about cutting spending, while at the same time they were increasing it. You think that is somthing to aspire to?
Where I come from we call that not telling the truth!
But Obama didn't even try and lie about cutting spending and you don't like that?
Steve, when you say stupid stuff like that, what conclusion are we to draw?
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Jim,
As I suspected, you are calling me a liar and stupid.
I'll give you credit, your like a honey-badger in that you don't give up. You take an intellectual b*tchslapping and get right back up. Problem is, you kind of go off randomly like a firehose someone dropped on the driveway.:laugh:
It's also clear you don't listen or don't understand any of my answers, since you keep asking the same questions. :dead:
As I suspected, you are calling me a liar and stupid.
I'll give you credit, your like a honey-badger in that you don't give up. You take an intellectual b*tchslapping and get right back up. Problem is, you kind of go off randomly like a firehose someone dropped on the driveway.:laugh:
It's also clear you don't listen or don't understand any of my answers, since you keep asking the same questions. :dead:
It's not a simple yes or no, there are numerous factors involved (such as who supplies the insurance, who buys the insurance, is it portable, is the insurance monopoly allowed to continue etc etc) that you don't address in your question. The fact you don't understand that says enough.
Again::dead:
Again::dead:
You're assuming portability is for my benefit, it's not (and I don't think that way vis a vis healthcare policy). It is for the benefit of the patient to be able to take their insurance with them wherever they go (CA to MN for instance). There are people who stay in a job because the healthcare benefits are good and other possible jobs don't offer as good of coverage for their specific needs. What if they could take it with them...
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Let me help you out.
Forest Gump says: "Stupid is as stupid does":
Stupid is as stupid does: Definition:
"An intelligent person who does or says stupid things is still stupid"!
**************************
Its apparent to me that you won't answer my simple question because you can't. Not without proving once again that you are wrong, you know that, I know that and now everyone knows that.
I'll help you out, of course if everyone had Health Care insurance, or just paid their bulls, my very high health Care costs would go down. Duh!
I've been in a war of wits with an unarmed person! Good by!
Forest Gump says: "Stupid is as stupid does":
Stupid is as stupid does: Definition:
"An intelligent person who does or says stupid things is still stupid"!
**************************
Its apparent to me that you won't answer my simple question because you can't. Not without proving once again that you are wrong, you know that, I know that and now everyone knows that.
I'll help you out, of course if everyone had Health Care insurance, or just paid their bulls, my very high health Care costs would go down. Duh!
I've been in a war of wits with an unarmed person! Good by!
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