Young Gun slingers kill an Aussie
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
OK Keith here is my opinion, based on my own personal experiance...............
I have had two loved ones shot, one murdered one only attempted murder.
Does this color my feelings toward guns?
You bet your ass it does!
I'm willing to bet that many folks here on out fourm have been similarly effected by guns!
Yes Larry, these are statistics, only 50% of my loved one who were shot died!
Yes larry here are some more numbers:
In 2010 ***82*** childeren in the USA under 5 years old, died from firearms.
Larry, that is not a statistic that is DEAD CHILDREN!
82 familys that will never be the same, Larry is that a statistic and that is ruined lives?
I have had two loved ones shot, one murdered one only attempted murder.
Does this color my feelings toward guns?
You bet your ass it does!
I'm willing to bet that many folks here on out fourm have been similarly effected by guns!
Yes Larry, these are statistics, only 50% of my loved one who were shot died!
Yes larry here are some more numbers:
In 2010 ***82*** childeren in the USA under 5 years old, died from firearms.
Larry, that is not a statistic that is DEAD CHILDREN!
82 familys that will never be the same, Larry is that a statistic and that is ruined lives?
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Jim your emotional argument based on personal life experiences carries a lot more weight & power than some stupid statistics published by some faceless twat trying to make a buck. That's what I'm talking about...
Guys, someone's died. They didn't have to but they did. It also didn't have to be an Aussie, but it was.
The world will still be turning tomorrow - and people will still be needlessly dying everywhere all the time.
What shall we do? It's a work in progress mates...
In the Christian Religion, one person historically and equally needlessly died for everyone else, perhaps thus pre-empting the need for this very conversation. Didn't work did it?
What have we learned?
Guys, someone's died. They didn't have to but they did. It also didn't have to be an Aussie, but it was.
The world will still be turning tomorrow - and people will still be needlessly dying everywhere all the time.
What shall we do? It's a work in progress mates...
In the Christian Religion, one person historically and equally needlessly died for everyone else, perhaps thus pre-empting the need for this very conversation. Didn't work did it?
What have we learned?
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Keith, I can answer that! Not a damned thing.
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
It's all very scientific. The "wild west" rebel mentality that left the British shoreline centuries ago continued the gene pool of "might makes right" right on through to today's society 
. It is a staple of Americana. And what makes you more mighty than the other guy?..a gun of course, and the bigger, most rapid firing, tactically aesthetic, the better. I've had a gun poked in my face, and had I had a gun to use rather than use my head, I most likely wouldn't be here to write about it.
. It is a staple of Americana. And what makes you more mighty than the other guy?..a gun of course, and the bigger, most rapid firing, tactically aesthetic, the better. I've had a gun poked in my face, and had I had a gun to use rather than use my head, I most likely wouldn't be here to write about it.
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Guys we as a people have learned a lot! We try to limit the needless deaths.
When we first made laws against drunk driving people screamed about their rights. But in the end statistics show lives were saved
When we first made laws about smoking in public people screamed about their rights. But statistics show that lives were saved
When they first made laws to limit when and with who teens could drive, people screamed about their rights. But statistics show that lives were saved.
When they first made wearing seat belts manditiory, people screamed about their rights. But statistics show that lives were saved.
When they first made laws about manditory helmets for mororcycle riders, people screamed about their rights. But statistics show that lives were saved.
This goes on and on, but we have learned alot from statistics and we have saved thousands and thousands of lives.
Keith are you for trying to limit needless deaths?
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Who were the shooters and where were they from? I doubt we will ever know because they are minors...
I'm surprised all of you 'progressives' aren't demanding to know the race of the shooters..
It was such a big deal in the Trayvon Martin case but not in this. Why?
I'm surprised all of you 'progressives' aren't demanding to know the race of the shooters..
It was such a big deal in the Trayvon Martin case but not in this. Why?
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Always, but you cannot save people from themselves - and to order them, organise them and legislate for them to limit 'needless deaths by decree' is to seek to deprive them of the very liberty you set out to value, applaud and defend.
Your alternative would seem to infer a Society where no one dies - but no-one lives either.
I know which Society I would vote for, and it wouldn't be yours my friend. Sorry.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Keith,
So you would be for a law in the UK to make gun ownership a "right".
Do you think that your country would be better off if anyone in the UK could posses any kind of gun with any size magazine shooting the most deadly type of bullets?
Would that restore your LIBERTY and make the UK a better/safer place?
You would prefer a Country more like Oakland?
So you would be for a law in the UK to make gun ownership a "right".
Do you think that your country would be better off if anyone in the UK could posses any kind of gun with any size magazine shooting the most deadly type of bullets?
Would that restore your LIBERTY and make the UK a better/safer place?
You would prefer a Country more like Oakland?
Its wrong to judge a nation by the actions of the lawless arseholes that perpetrated this heinous act.
Bob
Bob
As usual, Jim, you missed (ignored?) the point, which IS: Stats don't tell everything. They just don't. In fact, MANY stats are engineered to say whatever this or that person or group WANTS them to say...much like an 'opinion' poll. For instance, generally, stats make no distinction regarding gun deaths from criminal actions vs. accidents...between LEGAL guns/gun owners involved in gun incidents vs. ILLEGAL guns/gun 'owners' committing crimes. 'Bigggg difference.
Furthermore, there ARE NO STATS (of which I'm aware, anyway) on how many lives are SAVED by guns every year. NONE. Why? It can be argued it's because such stats would skew/offset/discredit the anti-gun, 'ban the gun', 'guns are BAAAAAAD' agenda pushed by so many.
Another thing your stats don't point out (nor do they debunk, BTW): When it comes to defending ones self and/or ones family against an armed perp or perps, the only truly effective defense is another gun.
Will a gun save your bacon each time, every time, all the time? NO. But neither, may I add, will YOUR defense strategy, sir: Namely; to "show the perps where the good stuff is...lead them to your safe...open it for them...help them carry your stuff out to their car...wish them 'bon voyage', and P-R-A-Y they'll leave w/o KILLING all the witnesses." (Forgive me if I didn't quote you word-for-word.) As I've mentioned B4 - that's not an EFFECTIVE defense strategy at all. THAT strategy leaves whether y'all live or die 100% up to the perp/perps.
That is not a cognitive position your are defending. There is no possible answer I can give that would NOT make me appear to be someone promoting mass murder. Please put forward a philosophical opinion which at least enables participants to discuss a possible solution with some kind of dignity. Your posit promotes hostility and negativity and is not conducive to the attainment of reasonable enlightenment, and has placed the previously thoughtful posts into an inevitable confrontation between Left & Right - again. In short, you are being a bully. Again.
However, since the whole gambit of modern American politics is couched in such unanswerable dogma and rhetoric which I do not comprehend much less tolerate, I therefore gracefully withdraw from this conversation because it will now go nowhere.
Jim I give you full marks for consistency - if you had been President of the Canadian Pacific Railroad, it would never have been built.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
I will point out that in Australia where guns are banned, this year in Sydney alone there have been 72 shootings in public places resulting in eight dead and 28 wounded.
Society is to blame, in my youth I was raised in a rural district and everyone I knew owned a gun. Yet gun crime was unheard off.
From about age eight I hunted rabbits, kangaroo and Wallaby to put meat on the table.
In those days cars were left unlocked with the keys in the ignition. The door of the house were left open. If a Neighbor ran out of beer he would walk in and borrow some from your fridge. Nobody would ever take your last beer and they would always leave a note.
What has changed? RESPECT. Parents can no longer spank their children for not respecting and obeying their elders, neither can teachers. Yet children need guidelines and part of that is discipline.
We were taught to stand up in trains for anyone older than us, especially women how often do you see that today?
I remember not so long ago being abused by a young women for holding the door open for her she told me I was being sexist.
Our judicial system lets people off with a slap on the wrist and home detention. Our politicians, don't give a flying fcuk about the country but only about power.
The problem is us, those of us who have allowed the decay of values, discipline and respect for your fellow men. Those of us who have stood by and allowed it to happen.
Society is to blame, in my youth I was raised in a rural district and everyone I knew owned a gun. Yet gun crime was unheard off.
From about age eight I hunted rabbits, kangaroo and Wallaby to put meat on the table.
In those days cars were left unlocked with the keys in the ignition. The door of the house were left open. If a Neighbor ran out of beer he would walk in and borrow some from your fridge. Nobody would ever take your last beer and they would always leave a note.
What has changed? RESPECT. Parents can no longer spank their children for not respecting and obeying their elders, neither can teachers. Yet children need guidelines and part of that is discipline.
We were taught to stand up in trains for anyone older than us, especially women how often do you see that today?
I remember not so long ago being abused by a young women for holding the door open for her she told me I was being sexist.
Our judicial system lets people off with a slap on the wrist and home detention. Our politicians, don't give a flying fcuk about the country but only about power.
The problem is us, those of us who have allowed the decay of values, discipline and respect for your fellow men. Those of us who have stood by and allowed it to happen.
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Larry, here are some good examples of trained professional Police using guns to protect their families..........
N.Y. Cop Shoots, Kills 'Intruder' Son
July 23, 2012
An officer with the Parry (N.Y.) Police Department shot and killed his 37-year-old son early Saturday in a hotel, after mistaking him for an intruder.
Hug Triggers Officer's Gun, Kills Woman
July 9, 2012
Adaisha Miller, who would have turned 25 today, was embracing the officer when the shooting occurred near 12:30 a.m. Sunday. The officer was carrying his .40-caliber service pistol in an inside-the-waistband holster he covered with his shirt.
Toddler Son of Calif. Cop Fatally Shot
July 6, 2012
The toddler son of a San Jose police officer was shot and killed at home in Gilroy in what investigators believe was a tragic accident Thursday afternoon.
Wash. Officer Pleads Not Guilty In Accidental Shooting
June 8, 2012
A Washington state police officer accused of leaving a loaded handgun in the family van where his young son could grab it and fatally shoot his 7-year-old sister has pleaded not guilty to a second-degree manslaughter charge.
Wash. Officer Charged In Daughter's Death
May 23, 2012
Prosecutors have charged a Marysville (Wash.) Police officer with second-degree manslaughter in the death of his 7-year-old daughter who was fatally shot by the officer's son.
Daughter of Wash. Officer Dies After Shooting
March 12, 2012
A Marysville (Wash.) Police officer's 7-year-old daughter, who was wounded Saturday afternoon when her sibling fired a gun that was inside their parents' van, died at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle early Sunday.
Third-Grader Shot at Wash. School Remains In Critical Condition
February 23, 2012
Students returned to Armin Jahr Elementary School Thursday in Bremerton, Wash., a day after a third-grader was accidentally shot after a gun in the backpack of another student discharged.
N.J. Cop Accidentally Shoots Self While Apprehending Suspect
January 27, 2012
A Jersey City (N.J.) Police officer accidentally shot himself during a fugitive apprehension in Elizabeth Thursday night. He was shot in the abdomen.
Stumbling Cop Who Shot Suspect Won't Be Charged
October 15, 2009
A San Mateo, Calif., police officer won't be charged for shooting and wounding a suspect in August, partly because his gun went off by accident when he tripped on a curb, authorities said Wednesday.
Little Girl Accidentally Shot by Iowa Deputy's Shotgun
August 4, 2009
A 3-year-old girl suffered minor injuries Sunday after a young boy allegedly fired a shotgun mounted in a Polk County sheriff's deputy's car on display in a Des Moines park.
Albuquerque Officer Killed in Home Shotgun Accident
September 26, 2008
Lt. Todd Parkins, 38, was killed Wednesday when his shotgun accidentally went off inside
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Keith you have cosistantly defended the gun rights folks here on this fourm.
You have consistantly attacked me every time I point out the horrific effects that guns have in my country.
Yet when I asked if you would want these same rediculusly lax gun laws in your country, you say this........
So you are all for defending unlimited gun laws in my country, but supporting those same laws in the UK, that would be "promoting mass murder".
Really?
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Jim, those so called professional cops you mention where obviously not taught proper gun safety, or didn't bother with it. For instance how can a gun with the safety on be discharged by a hug. Answer it can't.
Are you suggesting you should disarm cops? The bad guys would love that!
Are you suggesting you should disarm cops? The bad guys would love that!
Spot on Pete. I recall holding a door open for a woman a few years back. She said "I hope you didn't do that because I'm lady." I responded "No. I did it because I'm a gentleman." She gave me a very withering stare.... I just smiled back.
Gun crime is becoming more common here in New Zealand, but there is no way I would advocate relaxing our gun laws.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Hey Brian a great come back I wish I had thought of that!
I just told the bitch she was a slut and let the door close on her.
I just told the bitch she was a slut and let the door close on her.
Larry, here are some good examples of trained professional Police using guns to protect their families..........
N.Y. Cop Shoots, Kills 'Intruder' Son
July 23, 2012
An officer with the Parry (N.Y.) Police Department shot and killed his 37-year-old son early Saturday in a hotel, after mistaking him for an intruder.
Hug Triggers Officer's Gun, Kills Woman
July 9, 2012
Adaisha Miller, who would have turned 25 today, was embracing the officer when the shooting occurred near 12:30 a.m. Sunday. The officer was carrying his .40-caliber service pistol in an inside-the-waistband holster he covered with his shirt.
Toddler Son of Calif. Cop Fatally Shot
July 6, 2012
The toddler son of a San Jose police officer was shot and killed at home in Gilroy in what investigators believe was a tragic accident Thursday afternoon.
Wash. Officer Pleads Not Guilty In Accidental Shooting
June 8, 2012
A Washington state police officer accused of leaving a loaded handgun in the family van where his young son could grab it and fatally shoot his 7-year-old sister has pleaded not guilty to a second-degree manslaughter charge.
Wash. Officer Charged In Daughter's Death
May 23, 2012
Prosecutors have charged a Marysville (Wash.) Police officer with second-degree manslaughter in the death of his 7-year-old daughter who was fatally shot by the officer's son.
Daughter of Wash. Officer Dies After Shooting
March 12, 2012
A Marysville (Wash.) Police officer's 7-year-old daughter, who was wounded Saturday afternoon when her sibling fired a gun that was inside their parents' van, died at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle early Sunday.
Third-Grader Shot at Wash. School Remains In Critical Condition
February 23, 2012
Students returned to Armin Jahr Elementary School Thursday in Bremerton, Wash., a day after a third-grader was accidentally shot after a gun in the backpack of another student discharged.
N.J. Cop Accidentally Shoots Self While Apprehending Suspect
January 27, 2012
A Jersey City (N.J.) Police officer accidentally shot himself during a fugitive apprehension in Elizabeth Thursday night. He was shot in the abdomen.
Stumbling Cop Who Shot Suspect Won't Be Charged
October 15, 2009
A San Mateo, Calif., police officer won't be charged for shooting and wounding a suspect in August, partly because his gun went off by accident when he tripped on a curb, authorities said Wednesday.
Little Girl Accidentally Shot by Iowa Deputy's Shotgun
August 4, 2009
A 3-year-old girl suffered minor injuries Sunday after a young boy allegedly fired a shotgun mounted in a Polk County sheriff's deputy's car on display in a Des Moines park.
Albuquerque Officer Killed in Home Shotgun Accident
September 26, 2008
Lt. Todd Parkins, 38, was killed Wednesday when his shotgun accidentally went off inside
I will admit you ARE the master when it comes to ducking, dodging and deflecting attention from any point anybody makes...
The key word in every example you listed above, save ONE, was "accident".
How many people run over themselves with their own car...back over their own child or a neighbor's...get killed falling in a bathtub...die from carbon dioxide poisoning in their own home or car...get killed when 'falling' a tree...get killed FALLING period...get killed in auto wrecks, plane wrecks, motorcycle wrecks...'killed in skydiving mishaps...'killed by electrocution??? How many people are MURDERED with/by knives, baseball bats, beatings, drowning, etc., etc., etc.???
Puhleeeeze...