016 to 01E

Pat

Supporter
Jim, is there any way they can take the measurements from your output flange to the upright and match it to an existing application. That would seem to be the easier solution.

Where does the factory (and all those that have installed 01e's) get their axles? Are they all custom made? If not, I'm surprised if it wasn't an option with the CAV kit.
 
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Pat, part 1 of your question has been what SRE has attempted to do but were unable to match their measurement to any current application or known use.

But, I've just spoken to the shop and they've been very gracious in offering the following:

Once the dimensions and drawings of the shaft have been submitted to them via their vendor and then approved by SRE they will advise me of the cost to make 1 axle and they'll be happy to ask the vendor what 2 would cost as Dave (see 01E install) is in need of the same axle. (See post #17 on Dave's thread)

Obviously Dave and I's axles would need to match perfectly . The 1st thing we'd need to know is will the dimensions of my axle be the same as the one he needs and 2nd will the splines at each end be the same as his. If our axle dimensions and splines match it might be beneficial to make 2. SRE advised they would be glad to deal with Dave on the 2nd axle and would ship direct. Its my understanding they ask 10-20% over cost for all parts plus the shipping of course. That's fair and pretty much standard I believe.

I've asked Dave for his measurements so can then compare both. SRE even said they'd be willing to email me the axle drawing with dimensions. That is a very generous offer IMHO as they are under no obligation to do so.

Once the axle dimensions are known I think part two of your question becomes moot.
 
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Dave, Thanks for checking in. I visited the shop yesterday to check on their progress and found CAV # 82 neatly placed in a corner surrounded by some very tasty racing machines. A gorgeous Ferrari 308 racer sits to her left so she is in good company.

The box has been temporarily mounted to the engine for test fitting and I saw first hand the beautiful (but expensive) machined adapters SRE produced so the CV's will mate up to the out-put flanges of the 01E. I was also shown the clutch disk that had to be made so it would match up with the flywheel on the car. SRE are still waiting on the spec's for the drivers side axle/drive shaft from their vendor which is why the car has not been completed. For those with early CAV cars I can now confirm a small notch will need to be made to the lower inside lip of the rear clip to clear the 01E.

Once they get the specs and approve them the axle will be completed and I'm told the car should be completed shortly thereafter. SRE and the vendor producing the axle are both heavily involved in the US racing scene so delays are expected. This weekend both are heading for Road America where I'm told they will discuss the axle and getting it made asap.

In speaking to SRE's owner and the mechanic assigned to my car I've advised both I fully understand the delays but I can tell they want the car completed and back in my hands as quickly as possible. Judging by their shop they also need the space!

A quick word about the quality of the adapters. As stated they ain't cheap but SRE doesn't do cheap. They want them to work so they used a top grade metal for them both. Having seen and felt them they are solid pieces and beautifully made.

I did take photos of one of the adapters as the other waits to be completed once the other drive shaft arrives. I'll try and post the photos.

I've learned to be patient and as previously stated this time of year is "down" time for #82 as the temps soar past 100 F routinely and chancing getting caught in one of Florida's famous down-pours is not high on my list of things to do in a GT 40.

BTW some of the eye candy in SRE's shop is breathtaking. I saw a rare (very!) Lotus engine being put together as well as a HUGE Aston Martin engine waiting in line with Ferrari engines waiting to be shipped and some stunning Judd Racing engines. Quite the place to hang out.

How bout you mate.....things moving forward?
 
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Dave, thanks for checking in and very sorry for my tardy reply. I've just returned from a trip to Dubai and Cape Town, SA, and have heard from SRE that the car is done. They tell me it drives very nicely and gave me some new RPM to MPH figures that sound very promising compared to the 016. They are delivering the car to Daytona in a few days where I'll finally be reunited with her. I'll give an update once I've been behind the wheel.

Glad to hear you're loving yours. I admit to being excited to feel the difference in the gearing and speed in gears.
 
Gents,

For those interested I have my car back with the new 01E transaxle. The car was delivered to Daytona Raceway by SRE where I was only able to put @ 10 test miles on the car in the infield of the track. Initially, I was very disappointed as finding a gear was impossible but after an adjustment to the linkage all was fine. The shifting feels very similar to the 016 meaning kinda notchy and a wee bit vague but very suitable. I'll give a better report after putting some serious miles on the car but I can state with certainty a Reverse Lock-out may be a must given the proximity of first gear to reverse. I'll add, rarely will I ever shift into first without being at a full stop though so this might not be a huge issue. The lock out would be the ideal cure however.

Modifications had to be made to the rear bodywork of my CAV. The bottom lip had to be massaged to clear the slightly longer box and the exhaust outlet to the bodywork required modification to clear the pipes I use. The CAV kit I ordered was helpful with only 1 part (a spacer) not being used.

The 3 big ticket items (other then the ever present labor!) were the driver side axle which had to be custom made along with two adapter spacers to fit the larger output flanges of the 01E I purchased which all of us now know (those following this thread) exists.

So, first and foremost check the size of your current gearbox out put flanges and try to purchase an 01E with the same size flanges or see if they can be purchased and retro-fitted to your new 01E. This will save you some cash. Based on my good friend Dave down-under and my own experience you're probably going to have to buy an axle of some sort to accommodate the new box for the left side of the car/box.

If you have any mechanical ability at all I will say the 01E would be very nice upgrade to those absolutely wanting a change to the 016. (BTW I have a spare 016. If interested PM me) Having the skills to do the work on your own makes a HUGE difference to total outlay of money. I don't, so I paid. The 016 is a solid reliable unit and I'm aware of a few friends who have opted to change out their R&P, add a Wavetrac LSD to their existing 016 units and be on the road in no time at a far less cash layout.

This is certainly food for thought and I ponder if I knew then what I know now would I still opt for the 01E given the trials and tribulations I faced pretty much on my own with very little input from those I would have thought had answers. Lack of assistance cost me $$ but I'm now able to answer questions to anyone making inquiries.

More to follow once more miles are put on car.
 
As promised a follow up to my post of 10/8/2015.

After putting some good miles on the 01E I can clearly state the car is much better having the 01E then the 016 that came with the car. The main factor is this 01E box suits my engine far better due to the gearing. It makes the car more user friendly and places less stress on the motor. I can drive the car in 4th, 5th or 6th and cruise in any of these gears which keeps the motor in a sweet spot. Having Webers its easier to find a gear that isn't too low or too high and allows me to cruise without stressing the engine.

As stated above The BIG question is was it worth what I paid to buy the box and then get it installed. The answer is not easy if I'm honest. Not being a mechanic cost me but as stated in a previous post if you have mechanical ability then the 01E is a very good and strong alternate transaxle which should be given serious consideration by the budget conscience over the G50 and ZF/RBT variants.
 
From the sounds of your 2 posts today, your trip to Daytona was very satisfying. Since we've talked several times over past few months, I'm very happy to hear that #82 is back on the road and better than ever.

As you know I'm sending my 016 out next week to Oregon for a rebuild, new R&P, a 5th gear change and an LSD. I'm hoping that the results will be close to your conversion.

I wish you would have been allowed to get a side by side photo of your yellow CAV and the black GT.
 
Thanks Tom...it was always a pleasure talking with you about my conversion. I think you'll be well pleased with your 016 with the new R&P. Veek tells me its transformed his car so I know you'll be very happy too. The 016 is an underrated box and I've yet to read of a failure by anyone who's installed it, maintained it and not abused it.

Lets hear from you once its done please.
 

Pat

Supporter
Jim, congrats on two fronts, first for conquering the unknowns on the 016 to 01E conversion. Having your car with the correct gearing has obviously made it even better to drive and increased the fun factor enormously. It's a shame the conversion had to be harder and more time consuming than it needed to be. One would think there would be an "01E Conversion Kit" or spec readily available given the obvious market interest in the boxes and the number of completed installations/conversions.
Secondly, good on you for the connection to the "New" Ford GT. What a cool touch point for you and your car. It also speaks volumes in the fit and finish of your car that the engineers that probably weren't' even born when the GT40s conquered LeMans related so favorably to your car.
Please post any updates you may undertake regarding shift gates, deck or exhaust adjustments etc. you may make as you evolve the new box to your liking. I bet many others would be interested in following your progress.
 
Great work Jim, good to hear you're pleased with the results. That was no easy task getting all the details squared away.

I was just waiting for you to figure it all out. Next guy to convert has it easy!
 
I have seen a few broken 016's , they break. They are fine for street driving and the odd squirt but start putting decent HP through it and it will go bang, If the pinion shaft doesnt punch through the back of the box the side diff carrier alloy plate will flex stripping your crown and pinion yet the 01E will take a flogging. I have been enjoying dropping the clutch and frying Avon tyres. When you look inside the two boxes the 01E is much larger, fatter shafts, bigger gears.
 
Dave, that's very good to know and hear about the 01E. It comforts me knowing what I paid in total for my box and its installation. Did you have to modify your rear clip to accommodate your 01E?
 
Jimmy yes i had to make about a 20mm recess to clear the trans.

I haven't broken an 016 but a friend has broken his several times. One time it died on the way home the dyno, stripped pinion i think, another time was an oil flow issue with the steel reinforcing plate. Search the net ,there are a lot failures out there. I personally wouldn't waste coin on an 016. but if you have a car set up for 016 then the next option is the 944/016 hybrid which is more painful than fitting an 01E and not as strong.

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Pat

Supporter
Thanks for the info Dave. When trans failures are discussed, whether it be 01E first gear or 016 case fails, it's useful to determine what the box was doing at the point of failure. Then one can determine if that's type of use that they may realistically encounter. It's also useful as to what are first person accounts versus "I know of someone who" to truly understand failure frequency.
I had contacted German Transaxle (GTA) about an upgrade to my 016 for the simple reason I don't like the ratios. The box has proven reliable over years but 3,000 RPM @ 70 MPH got old after the dozen years I've had the car. I've been reasonably aggressive with it but not to the point I've taken it to a drag strip. Candidly, I wouldn't drag race, do donuts or burnouts with anything short of a Weddle, Albins or Mendeola box in the back.
The unknowns about the 01E (and Jim's experience) put me off. Which box has the flanges compatible with the 016, which boxes have the newer and bigger first gear, which ones have the old collar causing the 1st to second gear "shift problem" and need the repair kit on the market etc.? All that is in addition to the mysterious fitment requirements that seem to have the secrecy requirements of the first atomic bomb. Why all the mystery?? The only 01E information that was readily available are the ratios but those don't indicate the source car.
I discussed options with GTA who were happy to sell me any of their boxes. In discussion of the choices, I found out while a reliable box, the ratios for the Porsche Boxter trans were really no better then the 016 and it had the fitment unknowns of the 01E. The Porsche G50 was the best option but a freshly rebuilt box would require a complete change from the engine block rearward that would cost almost as much as the box itself. That was the way I was going to go.
The GTA solution however, was an 016 box they had that had been modified with Albins gears giving the ratios I desired and (surprisingly) NOT with the strengthening plate. The tech there indicated that the plate really is in the wrong place to do any good and as your friend's experience might indicate, actually can cause more problems than it solved. They recommended against it. They also indicated the 016 failures they've seen most frequently are the result of improper ring and pinion set up and differential failure. Like Cliff Beer, they solved the latter with a Porsche LSD. While their Albins 016 box was more expensive than their 01E, they indicated it was good to 450HP and backed it up with a four year warranty.
For me, the biggest selling point was I get to avoid the unknowns and associated risks with an 01E upgrade and I keep my preference for a five speed transmission.
They also warned of ANY trans from a high mileage car as they often find so called bargains that are acquired on EBAY etc. that when sent to them are unusable for rebuild. So caveat emptor.
As a result of all this, I was driving with the new Albins/016 box 48 hours after UPS delivered it and the ratios are perfect. My preference for five speeds, light weight and easy fitment were met. I can actually use all five gears and the car's manners from stop light to highway are amazing. As a pleasant side benefit, the A/C seemed to worked better. I was later told that the compressor was designed to optimally run at +/- 2,000 RPM and that buzzing it at the 3,000RPM highway speeds I typically run limited it's efficiency.
In hindsight, if I was to buy a new kit or roller, I would go with a G50. If the "01E experience" weren't such a mysterious hassle, I might have gone that way as I believe places like GTA and Advanced Automation produce a quality product. But their business is the transmission not the installation and so there seems to void as to where to go for the kit and assembly expertise necessary to make it work.
 
I have seen a few broken 016's , they break. They are fine for street driving and the odd squirt but start putting decent HP through it and it will go bang, If the pinion shaft doesnt punch through the back of the box the side diff carrier alloy plate will flex stripping your crown and pinion yet the 01E will take a flogging. I have been enjoying dropping the clutch and frying Avon tyres. When you look inside the two boxes the 01E is much larger, fatter shafts, bigger gears.

The 01E has a great many design improvements over the 016, better oiling, three bearing support on the output and input shafts, gears are much wider, gearing options are more plentiful as well. Also a great many parts for the 016 are not available anymore. If you need a main shaft your out of luck, gears, and bearings are also NLA, unless they cross over to a Porsch part number.
 
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