15" Brembos on the SL-C

[Mike]

Well, as YOU know, there is always going to be a difference between a full on race car and one that is produced on a production line where cost is a factor.

I will admit that the, as produced, SLC is much closer to a full on race car than the GTM, but there are still some things that can be upgraded IMHO. Like the GTM, for the price, the SLC is an amazing supercar that can compete with production cars that are 3-4 times as expensive.

However, when it comes to the last 1/10th of performance, there are things that will make a race version SLC, an SLCR if you will, faster than the regular SLC. As is the case with any race car, the combinations of parts that will make the SLCR faster will be made by the racer himself in his quest for speed. In other words, you could build a no expense barred, all out top of the line SLCR, and one of the teams that buys it will definitely still change some things to THEIR liking, whether it makes it go faster or not.

That, as you know, is what makes racing what it is. One person thinking his way is better than others.......and then proving it, or not.

 

[Mesa]

Exactly Crash,
Since Fran is an ex motorcycle racer I'm sure he can relate to this. It is typical to put all the high end performance components on an OEM motorcycle for race use...and then have it go SLOWER. Also typical is to have the "have nots" claim that if they had all the bling then they would be fast too, having no clue how much work goes into actually extracting all the potential in all those expensive upgrades. I imagine a car is way more difficult to tune by an order of magnitude. Having a better base line gives a person a much better chance at getting it right in the end, with less work.

 

[Mike]

Again, since I can't edit, let me just add this.

Fran, you can come accross rather defensive sometimes about people that have some ideas about customization of "your baby" of the SLC. I have definitely felt this when speaking with you. In any case, I felt a little of that with your post about having to modify the GTM to be the GTMR, and my point was that no matter what you build and no matter how good it is, many will want to do there own thing with it. It may make it faster or slower, but it will happen. Serious racers, in their quest for speed, WILL improve upon your design, or any others design, if it gets them just a bit more than the other guy.

Again, the SLC appears to be a much better base to start with, so there probably won't be as much modifying to do, but certainly there will be some things that will get done by individuals.

I am anxiously awaiting seeing some head to head competition. The SLC is a better base, but the GTM has had a couple years of actual racing developement now. Should be very interesting.......if and when it happens.

 

[Dave]

I'm not sure I will be racing my SL-C in head to head racing. I do know I will be using it for both time trials and street terrorism. As we all know, racing for position vs. racing against the clock introduces far more risk to the equipment (my baby ). That said, I do have aspirations to run the car in the 25 hours of T-Hill in 2010 or (more likely) 2011.

Crash, we all know any car can be improved upon, however, the room for improvement, especially as a track car, is much smaller with the SL-C vs. the GTM. The cost (and time) to modify a GTM for safe and competitive track use, among numerous other things, far outweighs any savings realized over the entrance fee to the SL-C and with perhaps not as good results. To me, there was no other choice except for perhaps a Radical which is too radical for the street imho. With the SL-C, to convert from street use to track use, I plan on only having to remove the door panels and center console so I can install the door bars and downtube. Can't be simpler than that while realizing the best of both worlds. With the GTM, converting to center-drive is the only way I see to make that car track worthy (i.e. safe) and that just throws out any possible use as a street car imho.

Also, SLC-R is for Super Lite Coupe-Rotary

 

[Mesa]

I wrote up additional text to post then lost it all in a connection failure. So the short version – I chose an SLC after talking with owners of other performance component supercars on the market on (among other virtues) its chassis and suspension design. I do not have the capabilities to upgrade a chassis or modify suspension to any great extent. Similar to motorcycles if the chassis is not stiff enough it will absorb all the suspension tuning and not change a thing. So the good baseline was important to me, of course others may not put as much importance on this as or have the need for such performance. Some will have the capabilities and time to modify these things.
With enough work all of these type cars will be what the owners make of them and as with all racing the more resources one has, better the performance will be….taking that to the extreme all these cars would all end up being LMP1 cars. It all starts and ends somewhere in-between.
I would like to check out the 25 hour, TH is not far away when is it?

 

[Mesa]

I wrote up additional text to post then lost it all in a connection failure. So the short version – I chose an SLC after talking with owners of other performance component supercars on the market on (among other virtues) its chassis and suspension design. I do not have the capabilities to upgrade a chassis or modify suspension to any great extent. Similar to motorcycles if the chassis is not stiff enough it will absorb all the suspension tuning and not change a thing. So the good baseline was important to me, of course others may not put as much importance on this as or have the need for such performance. Some will have the capabilities and time to modify these things.
With enough work all of these type cars will be what the owners make of them and as with all racing the more resources one has, better the performance will be….taking that to the extreme all these cars would all end up being LMP1 cars. It all starts and ends somewhere in-between.
I would like to check out the 25 hour, TH is not far away when is it?

 

[Mike]

It's the first weekend in December. IIRC, that is the 5-6.

 

[Jack]

Hey Crash, Dave and Mesa have hit the nail on the head. The SL-C is a far superior
basis to begin with for a track/race car. Liken it to a streetable DP car from the beginning and you will see it would require far less expense, time and invention to become a very creditable bespoke racing car. With the currently available options, one would only need to concentrate on engine/gearbox for a true racing version.
Very simple additions and virtually bolt-in modifications would be required.

 

[Mike]

OK.....I thought I acknowledged that fact with my first response by saying this:

"I will admit that the, as produced, SLC is much closer to a full on race car than the GTM, but there are still some things that can be upgraded IMHO."

And then again with this:

"Again, the SLC appears to be a much better base to start with, so there probably won't be as much modifying to do, but certainly there will be some things that will get done by individuals."

And as a matter of fact I was the one that brought up the DP analogy.

Man, I forgot how annoying this site is sometimes with people just going in circles.

OK, why don't we get back to the subject at hand.

I have the opportunity to drive the GTMR in some races this year. I am trying to help out the team however I can. Therefore, I inquired about what components were used to allow the use of 15" rotors on the SLC as I would like to use them on the GTMR. Fran kindly answered my inquiry, but then added a little jab about the GTM.

Let's get this straight. I love the SLC and the GTM. At the moment the GTM is actually on the track winning races. Until the SLC is actually proven, I feel all this other talk is a waste of time and BS.

As I have said, I anxiously await the appearance of an SLC at the track.

 

[Jack]

Okay, we agree to agree. No jab meant at the GTMR either. Apples & oranges.

 

[Mesa]

Man, I forgot how annoying this site is sometimes with people just going in circles.
QUOTE]

For my part I was writing at the same time you were and then lost the post. I then posted the thought anyway so it appears I did not read your post. Your position was well communicated, sometimes our posts are victims of computers and connection failures.

Not intending to dogpile, sometimes timing (or lack of) is everything.

Maybe I'll see you at the 25 then, I'll look you up if I'm there

 

[Dean Lampe]

Crash, I would love to see your teams GTMR at Run and Gun this year. It would be a real center of attention! I know it isn't a real side by side race but as a "kit car" event goes, it is really the place for one manufacturer to compete against another and to meet some real nice people.

Who knows, maybe we could get a 30 lap exhibition race between the SLC and the the GTM and the Mongoose Motorsports GTP car just for kicks!

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Crash..

no jab about the GTM was intended ...I was not being defensive at all.....

I answered your question and asked you one in return ..simple as that...nothing more nothing less.

 

[Mike]

OK, I will accept that and take it at face value.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

Fran, you should just know that as passionate as you are about the SLC, some others are/will be about the GTM.

They're both great kit cars. Hope we can all have some fun at the races in the future......with the 15" brakes.

 

[Ron Earp]

I have the opportunity to drive the GTMR in some races this year.

I love the SLC and the GTM. At the moment the GTM is actually on the track winning races.

What sort of series/club is the GTM racing in and what class? Always interested in where the kit cars are running in the club racing scene. I'm surprised that NASA hasn't created a spec GTM class, they have spec everything else.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Mike]

The GTMR is currently racing in SCCA class SP, WERC class ES, and NASA class SU.

SP= Super Production
ES= SU= Super Unlimited

WERC= Western Endurance Racing Championship. It is the endurance racing arm of NASA that runs the series as well as the 25 Hours of Thunderhill.

There are quite a few drivers that drive this GTMR. If I am not mistaken, the GTMR is in the running, either first or second, in all three series/classes. Here is a link to the PDG group that runs the only GTMR that there is.

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