Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Some MGA's had the taillights on the rear bonnet.....fyi
1965 Mark 1 Roadster #106 is alive.
- Thread starter speed racer
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- 1965 chassie 106 mark 1 roadster
Yes, they did, and I was concentrating on the rear bumper & license plate light..Still think XK-140
Mark II MGAs had them below the boot lid inboard of the wings (fenders) but they were oval shaped.
Ditto.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Hear, hear. Very fairly put.
Update: First thing I appologized for posting what I thought was accurate information based on my memory of the car and pictures I had.
I will not appologize any further, waste of time. My brother is correcting me on a lot of stuff. His latest email to me with additional information about his ownership of #108:
The person in the two small pictures posted by another are of George Sawyer in Minnesota and not my brother. My brother is in the pictures I posted and were taken in Minnesota.
"The Minnesota photos that you have (meaning me) were taken in August, not October 1971. It was October 1971 when I had my financing in place with the bank and the car was driven to Springfield from Minnesota by George Sawyer. I gave him the check; he gave me a title for transfer. He took a bus back to Minnesota. The GT-40 was sold in October 1975, not 1976. I have the pictures of it being winched up into the truck. So, I was the GT108's owner for four years. The buyer told me he was going to restore it. The original Plexiglas headlamp covers had cracked over the years, for example."
"I have over 20 slides of the car and close-up details taken at my New Berlin house in 1975 before the car was picked up. Unfortunately, I did not take one of the Serial Number plate in the doorframe. One of them shows my 1974 Pontiac Grand Am in the background."
"I'm not surprised that the history of GT108 does not include me from 1971-1976. I bought the car from a guy named George Sawyer in Minnesota in October 1971. Car Craft/Kar Kraft--no big error, but that's where the car came from. I would like to know who was the owner of record for those years if not me. What does the "expert" history say? I did not keep track of the car after it left my house in New Berlin, so it could have had multiple owners by now. The guy who bought it from me, whose name I do not recall because he used a business front, said he had wanted to buy it in 1971 from that same ad, but I had been there first."
"You need to contact (Deleted) in Glen Ellyn, IL at (Deleted). There was a period of time in 1971-72 that he provided me garage space for the GT-40 because I only had a one-car garage with my apartment and needed it for the GTO. This was before I was married to (Deleted) in December 1972, after which I had it out in the country. Ask him whether or not I had a GT-40 roadster. He'll also offer you an unsolicited opinion about my stewardship as owner of the car, but let him tell that story. Hey, a thought, perhaps he has some pictures of it from when he had it in his garage.
"Remember, I still have a copy of the original exploded-view parts diagram manual for the car, which is the one artifact I did keep. Yes, it had a five-speed in it, and it also had a reverse position."
"I did not take the car to shows or race it. In fact, I rarely drove it after a problem occurred where the starter motor would not disengage after the engine started, producing a prominent screeching noise. I sold that problem to the buyer."
"I think I previously shared the story about occasional backfires when starting a GT-40. I never had one, but George told me how to react if I ever did. The problem was not as severe in a roadster with open air above it, but it was all kinds of scary when it happened inside an enclosed coupe. George knew of one car that was burned to a cinder when the driver panicked after a backfire inside the car and bailed out, letting the car burn. The correct reaction was to stomp down on the accelerator and suck the flames back down into the carbs and engine."
I will continue to post updates as I get more info.
I will not appologize any further, waste of time. My brother is correcting me on a lot of stuff. His latest email to me with additional information about his ownership of #108:
The person in the two small pictures posted by another are of George Sawyer in Minnesota and not my brother. My brother is in the pictures I posted and were taken in Minnesota.
"The Minnesota photos that you have (meaning me) were taken in August, not October 1971. It was October 1971 when I had my financing in place with the bank and the car was driven to Springfield from Minnesota by George Sawyer. I gave him the check; he gave me a title for transfer. He took a bus back to Minnesota. The GT-40 was sold in October 1975, not 1976. I have the pictures of it being winched up into the truck. So, I was the GT108's owner for four years. The buyer told me he was going to restore it. The original Plexiglas headlamp covers had cracked over the years, for example."
"I have over 20 slides of the car and close-up details taken at my New Berlin house in 1975 before the car was picked up. Unfortunately, I did not take one of the Serial Number plate in the doorframe. One of them shows my 1974 Pontiac Grand Am in the background."
"I'm not surprised that the history of GT108 does not include me from 1971-1976. I bought the car from a guy named George Sawyer in Minnesota in October 1971. Car Craft/Kar Kraft--no big error, but that's where the car came from. I would like to know who was the owner of record for those years if not me. What does the "expert" history say? I did not keep track of the car after it left my house in New Berlin, so it could have had multiple owners by now. The guy who bought it from me, whose name I do not recall because he used a business front, said he had wanted to buy it in 1971 from that same ad, but I had been there first."
"You need to contact (Deleted) in Glen Ellyn, IL at (Deleted). There was a period of time in 1971-72 that he provided me garage space for the GT-40 because I only had a one-car garage with my apartment and needed it for the GTO. This was before I was married to (Deleted) in December 1972, after which I had it out in the country. Ask him whether or not I had a GT-40 roadster. He'll also offer you an unsolicited opinion about my stewardship as owner of the car, but let him tell that story. Hey, a thought, perhaps he has some pictures of it from when he had it in his garage.
"Remember, I still have a copy of the original exploded-view parts diagram manual for the car, which is the one artifact I did keep. Yes, it had a five-speed in it, and it also had a reverse position."
"I did not take the car to shows or race it. In fact, I rarely drove it after a problem occurred where the starter motor would not disengage after the engine started, producing a prominent screeching noise. I sold that problem to the buyer."
"I think I previously shared the story about occasional backfires when starting a GT-40. I never had one, but George told me how to react if I ever did. The problem was not as severe in a roadster with open air above it, but it was all kinds of scary when it happened inside an enclosed coupe. George knew of one car that was burned to a cinder when the driver panicked after a backfire inside the car and bailed out, letting the car burn. The correct reaction was to stomp down on the accelerator and suck the flames back down into the carbs and engine."
I will continue to post updates as I get more info.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
This is very cool, Warren, and any additional photos would be welcome. Even most of us GT40 fans have never sat in an original car. I have been lucky enough to actually see and look over a few of them, and it is quite an experience; I sat the actual seat that Miles and Ruby occupied in 103 when it won the first victory ever by a GT40. Held the steering wheel, etc. An eerie moment.
If you have anything else to share, it would be welcome.
If you have anything else to share, it would be welcome.
. Cheers.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Come to think of it, I don't want to know what 108 sold for. I found out years back that one of the sale prices of 1040 when it changed hands was $20,000. Wish I'd been there...
I was looking at an old Road & Track and saw that a Daytona Coupe was for sale at $6,800. If only I had a time machine. Also a good friend of mine, said that when he was my age (19) there was a Maserati Birdcage for sale in his area. The price was somewhere around $4,000 or in the ball park. He begged his dad to buy it, but his dad said that there was no reason to buy it. If only his dad knew...
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
This is a bit off-topic, but then again, maybe not: a friend of mine (whose father is a well-known Ferrari authority and has co-authored several books on vintage Ferraris) remembers his parents' basement being full of Ferrari bits and pieces in the 50s and 60s; he would set up various things in the form of a "car" and sit in the seat and make engine noises. He would have been eight or ten, something like that.
His dad vividly recalled to me some of the vintage Ferraris that had passed through his hands- SWB Berlinettas, at least one 250 GTO, various cabriolets like California Spyders and PF cabrios, Superamericas, etc etc. At today's prices way better than a small fortune. Back then he and a colleague used to buy these cars in Europe for 3-4K and bring them here and resell them at a profit- a few thousand dollars profit, and thought they were doing great. Well, by the standards of the time, they were. And by today's...well, never mind.
His dad vividly recalled to me some of the vintage Ferraris that had passed through his hands- SWB Berlinettas, at least one 250 GTO, various cabriolets like California Spyders and PF cabrios, Superamericas, etc etc. At today's prices way better than a small fortune. Back then he and a colleague used to buy these cars in Europe for 3-4K and bring them here and resell them at a profit- a few thousand dollars profit, and thought they were doing great. Well, by the standards of the time, they were. And by today's...well, never mind.
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
When I was 17, which would have been 1967, there was an ad In the Chicago Sun Times (?) for a Ferrari sports racing car that had a Chevy engine installed - price was $300.
As I lived in Wisconsin - about a hundred miles away, and I didn't have any money - and my dad wouldn't lend any to me, I never found out what it was exactly or what happened to it.
As I lived in Wisconsin - about a hundred miles away, and I didn't have any money - and my dad wouldn't lend any to me, I never found out what it was exactly or what happened to it.
So, as I promised, are some more details on the #108 purchase in 1971 from George Sawyer. By the way I do know the purchase price in 1971. Will reveal that later, maybe.
My brother has been retired for a while, and much of the miniscule details are hard to put exactly in place on events that took place 40 years ago (was going to insert GT-40 years ago.) Kind of a joke. Get it? Anyway, there may be some information in what he wrote to me that may be new and interesting.
I have added two small clarifications in italics into his message for clairification. So here is the latest communication I received from him:
"I am indeed having a "senior" moment. Kar Kraft, of course, was in Michigan. George Sawyer, who said he had worked at Kar Kraft and reassembled GT108 and bought it, therefore lived in Michigan at the time. I can't remember him ever saying what year he did the reassembly. Obviously, even to me, as a Michigan resident, he would then have a Michigan license plate on the GT-40. At some point he ran into personal financial need and moved back to Minnesota (or reverse order) ("reverse order" being moving back first and then personal financial need), had the car with him, and placed an ad in AutoWeek to sell it. Since he was planning to sell the car rather than keep it in Minnesota, he did not change the plate (and probably not the title either) before he sold it to me. I drove to Minnesota to see the car with a co-worker from my office at Sangamon State University. The pictures you have here are those taken at the Minnesota location, most likely on the same day I was there as we both had cameras. You are probably looking at George Sawyer in the car (two pictures previously posted by another forum member earlier on), but the lighting is not good on his face. In fact, I might have been the photographer with his camera of him in the car. We took pictures of each other seated in the car (look at the backgrounds). My original slide from the back of the car looks almost exactly like the photo you have here, including the position of the car on the same colored gravel pathway. I was not the owner of the car on this day!
I suppose if I still had that Michigan license plate in my possession, that would calm your friends' concerns.
I found six more print photos of the GT-40 in my garage in New Berlin, parked crossways across the front just as I described. The nose of the other car in one of the pictures is of our 1973 Pontiac Grand Safari station wagon. In a clear shot of the rear of the car, the Michigan plate has been removed and only the screw holes show. I will scan these and send them on to you.
The published stats on GT108 say that the car was used for testing of components for the race cars, but GT108 itself was never raced. The GT-40 Road Cars had 5-speed syncromesh gearboxes in them. Who is to say that George Sawyer did not install a 5-speed transmission when he reassembled the car, if it had not already been installed for testing purposes previously?
This is more to chew on."
Be back tomorrow with another update.
My brother has been retired for a while, and much of the miniscule details are hard to put exactly in place on events that took place 40 years ago (was going to insert GT-40 years ago.) Kind of a joke. Get it? Anyway, there may be some information in what he wrote to me that may be new and interesting.
I have added two small clarifications in italics into his message for clairification. So here is the latest communication I received from him:
"I am indeed having a "senior" moment. Kar Kraft, of course, was in Michigan. George Sawyer, who said he had worked at Kar Kraft and reassembled GT108 and bought it, therefore lived in Michigan at the time. I can't remember him ever saying what year he did the reassembly. Obviously, even to me, as a Michigan resident, he would then have a Michigan license plate on the GT-40. At some point he ran into personal financial need and moved back to Minnesota (or reverse order) ("reverse order" being moving back first and then personal financial need), had the car with him, and placed an ad in AutoWeek to sell it. Since he was planning to sell the car rather than keep it in Minnesota, he did not change the plate (and probably not the title either) before he sold it to me. I drove to Minnesota to see the car with a co-worker from my office at Sangamon State University. The pictures you have here are those taken at the Minnesota location, most likely on the same day I was there as we both had cameras. You are probably looking at George Sawyer in the car (two pictures previously posted by another forum member earlier on), but the lighting is not good on his face. In fact, I might have been the photographer with his camera of him in the car. We took pictures of each other seated in the car (look at the backgrounds). My original slide from the back of the car looks almost exactly like the photo you have here, including the position of the car on the same colored gravel pathway. I was not the owner of the car on this day!
I suppose if I still had that Michigan license plate in my possession, that would calm your friends' concerns.
I found six more print photos of the GT-40 in my garage in New Berlin, parked crossways across the front just as I described. The nose of the other car in one of the pictures is of our 1973 Pontiac Grand Safari station wagon. In a clear shot of the rear of the car, the Michigan plate has been removed and only the screw holes show. I will scan these and send them on to you.
The published stats on GT108 say that the car was used for testing of components for the race cars, but GT108 itself was never raced. The GT-40 Road Cars had 5-speed syncromesh gearboxes in them. Who is to say that George Sawyer did not install a 5-speed transmission when he reassembled the car, if it had not already been installed for testing purposes previously?
This is more to chew on."
Be back tomorrow with another update.
