930 to 351W

[Bill Musarra]

Since I wasn't around when the trans was first installed to the motor, I am having a time getting all together. I have searched and read most of the postings from Ron's delima installing his to the rubber band tricks for installing the TO bearing. Most are for the G50, some for the 930.
It appears that the TO bearing sits inside the pressure plate. We marked the pieces so they would match up as they were when we took it apart for the engine inspection when metal was found in one of the spark plugs(another post later). The pressure plate and clutch all line up well. Using a clutch installation tool, it falls into place. I don't remember how the TO bearing was mounted when we separated the parts. What I need to know is, is my TO bearing the correct piece and does it mount inside the pressure plate, and are any pieces of it missing. All the pics I find show something a little different. It may be these are for a G50. Moelleur(sp?) posted a pic on his setup when he sold it and the TO looks like mine. So here is what I have and a little help from you guys would be nice.
Here is the TO bearing.

Here is the pressure plate/flywheel setup.

From what I can make out the clutch is a pull arrangement. The fingers of the PP go in toward the flywheel. Lining it up for the mating is easy enough to do based on postings using the rubber bands. Even though they are for a G50, I can see how it works here.
Is there anything I am missing out on?
I am also in the middle of selecting the proper master cylinder. I have a 996 slave and I don't know its area, so I am using the try it method with master cylinders. I am down to a 5/8" unit now since the 3/4 and 1" wouldn't budge it.

Bill

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

* Check that the TOB fits the release fork
*Fit the TOB to the pressure plate --First

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Like this :-:shocked:

 

[Steve26]

Hi Bill,
It looks just like mine and it went together very easy. I didn't use any rubber bands or anything to hold the bearing but I did use an engine hoist to lift the 930 tranny. I think if you use a lift it's very easy to assemble.

Steve

 

[Terry Oxandale]

I'm in the same boat as Bill. My parts with the KEP kit do not appear to have the washers and snap ring ( #1,2,4, & 5 per the PDF posted) that APPEAR to hold all of this onto the diaphram fingers (is that a correct assumption of their purpose?). It appears the TOB is inserted into the PP, with washers/spacers? and then the snap ring holds it in place. then the tranny is stabbed. What is the method of ensuring the clutch operating arms engage the TOB grooved fingers during the stabbing operation?

 

[Bill Musarra]

Terry,
Mine is as yours. The fork is visualized through the open view slots in the tranny. With the slave cylinder disconected you can move the arm around so that it comes in behind the ears as the trans is advanced into the motor. The ears may have to be secured so that they stay vertical, or you can use a long skinny screw driver to reposition them back to vertical when you nudge them and they move.
I can tell that the rear lip is to sit BEHIND the diaphram even though the pdf. appears to show it coming in from the front.

Are the other washers and snap rings to take up the slack so to speak and the notched washer to fit OUTSIDE the diaphram to hold the TOB in place, and the other washer and snap ring to hold it snug against the diaphram?? Should we(Terry and I) purchase these pieces or request KEP for them?

Bill

 

[Bill Musarra]

Just had a discussion with my shop foreman at Jim Ellis Porsche. The pdf. that Jack Mac has of the exploded view of the clutch package is correct IF you want the naturally aspirated clutch package. The setup that Terry and I have is the TURBO PACKAGE and has the TOB installed from the inside of the pressure plate with no other retainers or lock rings. The arm of the clutch holds it in place. I believe the two are not interchangeable. I think the clutch arms are different. My thinking is the grip of the turbo plate would be stronger than the naturally aspirated.

Bill

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Great bit of information Bill and appreaciate you passing this on to me and the members. I feel so much better knowing I don't need to go look around for even more pieces.

 

[EGLITOM]

may be this helps as well

Its a little different from Ross´s.

find attached also a excel chart which may be helpfull with the master cylinder layout.
A stock 993 or 964 slave is 23,7 mm.

Also the rubberband trick works great to mount the release fork. ( it is not to fix the bearing, it is to fix the fork on the on the bearing.).
Fix it to the bearing with rubberbands, install the gearbox and than it is pretty easy to slide in the fork axle.

TOM

 

[Bill Musarra]

Tom,
Thanks for all the info. I need the slave info for sure. I have done an extensive search on the web and have found the following. My setup is for the 78-88 Turbo Carrera 3.3L. The ones like Tom shows is for those after 88. There are many different models out there and they mostly use the type with the o & snap rings but their pressure plate & TOB are different. Even some of the ones that use the TOB without the rings are a different style TOBs. If you look closely at Tom's pic and mine at the bottom of this post, you will see that the fork arms are different as well. So I would say that you have to know:
1. What year trans are you using.
2. Is it a true turbo model setup or is it just a regular aspirated 930(decide which one you want). I would check also to see if the internals aren't a little different. One of the guys who knows the internals can answer it for us. It may just be that the turbo setups just have more clamping power???
3. A lot of the clutch packages advertised are 930, but they aren't the 930 trans, but the 930 car. Big difference

As far as mounting the trans to the motor, Tom's plan is good. I think that if you have the 930 like mine, remove the circlip and disconnect the second arm on the lever, you can extend the fork farther out and it can come in behind the ears on the TOB as you advance the trans into the motor. Once behind it reinstall the second arm and its circlip.

I have several pics of my arms in the normal extended position and with the slave compressed for a further reach of the arm, which may be enough to slide in behind the ears.

This way you don't have to remove the lever at all. Getting it lined up inside the trans with it up against the motor or near to it leaves no room for manipulation of the fork back into its spot.
When I first installed my trans, I did it the way I described, and it went right on. Lining up the second arm on the correct spline seems a little easier to me.

Bill

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Bill; Is that a custom slave-lever?

Tom; Thanks for the spreadsheet data. I've currently got a 3/4" master, but I've not yet checked on what is available for a slave, and their available diameters. It appears the 15/16" would be ideal using a stock slave-lever. I suppose a custom length on would be appropriate if the typical aftermarket slave does not come in the 15/16" bore.

Great string!

 

[Bill Musarra]

Terry,
My slave is a 996 unit. So far I haven't gotten it to budge with a 1" or a 3/4". I have a 5/8" that I am going to try out. I haven't gotten any help from my Porsche buddies on its size, so I am into the trial and error approach.
I handed my trans over to the shop foreman some time ago to get the slave onto the trans. With a DRB the cross support is so close to the trans and to where the slave should go, that any conventional mounting would not work. I had to notch it in several places.

The bar is ceramic coated or powder coated so I think it must be a Porsche item.If you need some ideas I have several pics you might consider. I was thinking one would work with mine, but NOOOOOO!!
If I could have finagled to get the cross bar forward of its mounting position I probably could have used a conventional setup, but it would have altered too many pieces.

Bill

 

[Terry Oxandale]

Bill, you know a LOT more about this than I do, but if the slave has yet to "budge" (literally), then perhaps there is something else going on. It would appear the 3/4", even if mismatched too large, would provide some movement with a lot of muscle, but I can't image it not moving something back there unless there was something else locked up.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Terry,
I would tend to agree with you, but there isn't much to lock up. To tell the truth, I understand the math behind all of this, but I know very little about the hydraulics except what others have espoused here on the forum. Now I can tell you all there is about human hydraulics!! All of my dealings with cars was to do the occasional brake pad/shoe replacement. This is very different. Especially the figuring out of the fittings, bias, etc. So I plan to delegate this to a mechanic guy, and I will stick to Anesthesia and driving it(whenever that happens:huh.

Bill