A very powerful piece of writing by Bryan Forbes

[David Morton]

He made the 2,000th. victim, Pete.
TWO THOUSAND. Just imagine all of these men in a group. Now Imagine all of their families and how their lives have been spoiled for ever.
For what? A bunch of ragheads who don't even know their names.

 

[Keith]

Not sure I can suscribe to the point of view that a highly trained Career Professional Soldier should described as a "victim" David - an unfortunate casualty perhaps but certainly not a victim.

 

[David Morton]

A valid point Keith but to explain why I used the word, I really think we have let all of our soldiers down very badly in terms of all sorts of things. Such as equipment (from the boots they initially had to wear, to the helicopters we asked them to fly in and the vehicles [old Land Rovers with bits of garden sheds trying to protect them] and rifles that kept failing and jets with hot bays where high pressure fuel was passing through) so in my way of describing my feelings about the situation they have found and to a large extent still find them selves in, I really think they are the victims of our govenments silly decisions. I wish the Talibans were the victims but until we have the boots squarely on each foot and jets that dont explode in mid air and transport that is mission capable, then our soldiers are the victims.

 

[Keith]

Point very well taken David but was it not ever so in the whole history of the British Armed Forces going back to Charles I. Whatever the quality of equipment and protection, today's strategies call for "MKI eyeball" contact with the enemy, especially when serving in regions with potentially unfriendly 'natives' who cannot be easily determined from the bad guys and one of the reasons that the US with their resources, have taken to the skies. It was never possible in Aden, Northern Ireland, Iraq and now Afghanistan.

But, wholesale corruption and the "old boy network" on the part of MOD suppliers and Whitehall have played a very serious part in the "untimely demise" of hundreds of thousands of our finest never mind the 'policing' difficulties..

For just one example, who can forget the debacle of WWII 'Market Garden'. Popular to blame Monty for 5,000 casualties but a fantastic strategy let down by what?

Wrong crystals in radio sets.
Failed Intelligence
Wildly inaccurate navigation for parachute main drop.
Supplies dropped in German hands.
Lastly and most telling: Red berets (hats) dropped in bulk in stead of food, ammunition and the correct VHF radio crystals.

Before that: The Raid on Dieppe. Tanks can't operate in shingle. I know that and I don't drive tracked vehicles. So, who didn't know that?

Gulf 1. Challenger I failure through inadequate sand filters. SA80 Assault Rifle (commisioned by MOD and built in UK) utterly useless in dusty, cold and muddy conditions. Again, who didn't know that?

Those are just a couple of examples of the scandal of equipment and logistic inadequacy that the British Armed Forces have had to endure going back hundreds of years. If anyone has the time, I'll list many many more.

Regretfully, the fighting spirit ability of our very fine Armed Forces have been much maligned in recent years and I totally blame Whitehall and the "Old School Tie" for the unecessary and premature demise of these brave guys and now of course, guyettes.

Winston once said "Give us the tools and we'll do the job." Was he ever so right.

As for "should we even be there?" The British soldier does not and never has to my knowledge ever questioned his orders but does the best he can under the cirumstances where ever he serves. His not to reason why and I am very aware that comments we make here in the UK can have an adverse effect on morale and the possibility of more needless deaths and I just hate handing propaganda tools to the 'enemy' who capitalise on what we would call our 'humanity' and they would call an abject weakness.

It's a fine balance, so I would always suggest the "Ninja" approach to politicians to get the point across.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Keith, well said.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Two more Aussies today. R.I.P.

 

[David Morton]

Pete,
This really is heart breaking. Can this ever be stopped while we have total idiots in charge of our countries?

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

David, I think it will end up like Vietnam. Under the R.O.E. we have it is unwinnable. Once public opinion starts to really hurt the politicians they will bring it to an end until then brave young warriors will be needlessly killed.:cry:

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Another Aussie killed today in a fire fight with the Taliban. Hope we got the bastards!

 

[David Morton]

2028. iCasualties | Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan
Another total waste of a young mans life.
There is no justification for staying there any more even for one day, irrespective of what Patreus and others may say. Leave them ( the Afghans ) to their fate, keep burning their poppy fields from above, drop them sandwich boxes if you feel like it,
but get the hell out come back and defend your own borders. Stop building mosques, become more, in fact very very intolerant to people who don't want to fit in in your various countries, but you have to stand up and be counted very soon and try to reverse the rot that is setting in big time. If we don't here , I can imagine this little island we call Great Britain becoming a muslim (moslem, islamic - call it what you want ) satellite of Mecca.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

2028. iCasualties | Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan
Another total waste of a young mans life.
There is no justification for staying there any more even for one day, irrespective of what Patreus and others may say. Leave them ( the Afghans ) to their fate, keep burning their poppy fields from above, drop them sandwich boxes if you feel like it,
but get the hell out come back and defend your own borders. Stop building mosques, become more, in fact very very intolerant to people who don't want to fit in in your various countries, but you have to stand up and be counted very soon and try to reverse the rot that is setting in big time. If we don't here , I can imagine this little island we call Great Britain becoming a muslim (moslem, islamic - call it what you want ) satellite of Mecca.

David + 1. Totally agree. I fully support our warriors, but this is another Vietnam, except it is desert instead of Jungle. I wish our stupid F**king politicians would learn from history

 

[Ian Anderson]

David + 1. Totally agree. I fully support our warriors, but this is another Vietnam, except it is desert instead of Jungle. I wish our stupid F**king politicians would learn from history

Well said Pete

There has never been a war against terrorists won by any country

The military are just out their being injured and killed for an unwinnable situation.

IAn

 

[David Morton]

Well Ian -
Please write to Cameron and Clegg and your own M.P. and tell them how thin the ice is under their feet if they don't do something p.d.q.
I know you will only get an answer from some toss pot civil servant, but you have to keep writing and writing. Your pen and mine will eventually make the difference.
The post code for no 10 is SW1A 2AA - the rest you know.
Please do it. And any other Brits who feel the same way as I do - it only takes five minutes and if you are in need, I'll send you the stamp. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[Keith]

Oh the Sheer bloody hypocrisy of the man! :furious:

At a book signing yesterday our recently departed New Labour 'Hero' reputedly said to be worth £50 million next year (he currently has 6 homes worth in excess of £15 million), Mr Tony (the working class can kiss my arse) Bliar announced to the press contingent that "Radical Islam is the biggest threat the world faces today" without a hint of irony in his voice and poo pooing the entirely logical suggestion that er, perhaps he played a very large part in it by his invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Will someone not tell him to shut up and vanish?

 

[Jack]

Yep! Teflon Tony is still at it..

 

[David Morton]

and we lost another seven brave young men in the last week.
2063 now.

 

[Nick]

John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton first Baron Acton (1834–1902). historian and moralist

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


William Pitt, the Elder, The Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

 

[Keith]

Extremely profound and relevant anecdotal information Nick, but does that knowledge in some way excuse him from being a complete & total cunt?

 

[Nick]

Extremely profound and relevant anecdotal information Nick, but does that knowledge in some way excuse him from being a complete & total cunt?

Keith,

Not having any Northern roots, I would have put it more along the lines of his father was a bachelor, but no it doesn't excuse him.

I still believe when he first came to power he did have all the best intentions, must be a bit hard staying in touch with the common man when your wife has the earnings potiential of a QC and is capable of this:-

12/5/2008

Thrifty Cherie loves nothing more than snaffling armfuls of freebies. From £40,000 holidays to £2 mugs, she has gained a reputation for getting something for nothing.

She astonished staff at a clothes store in Melbourne by leaving with 68 items worth £2,000 after being invited to pick out "a few things" as gifts.

A shop assistant was sent to a warehouse for more stock. Staff needed five boxes to pack the jumpers, tops, underwear, pyjamas, jackets, jeans, belts, bags, and an alarm clock.

Since 1997, the Blairs and their children have enjoyed £775,000 of free holidays as guests of wealthy hosts including Sir Cliff Richard and Silvio Berlusconi.

There was an outcry last year when British Airways gave them £6,000 of free upgrades for their Christmas flights to Florida.

They were on their way to Bee Gee Robin Gibb's £5million, 10-bedroom mansion in Miami which would have cost £40,000.

Cherie had the bill for her £275 a time haircuts sent to the cashstrapped Labour Party when Tony was PM. In January 2000, on her first day as a criminal court judge, Cherie had to pay a £10 fine for travelling without a valid rail ticket. In December 2002, she allowed Aussie conman Peter Foster to negotiate a £69,000 discount on two flats in Bristol.

In 2005 she addressed a £380-a-head dinner in New Zealand calling her hosts "Australians", and accepted £15,000 for a 90-minute talk in Washington while Tony was urging President George Bush to cancel African debt.

 

[Keith]

Yes, it's a sorry tale isn't it? Still, behind every bad man there's a worse woman with a dickhead father.....who was nothing to write about either. Anthony Booth the scouse actor famous for his part in "till Death us do Part" became a degenerate alcoholic and decided that he wanted to kill his wife. He met an ex SAS member in a pub near his home who gave him some advice on how he might achieve it.

In a completely drunken stupor he piled full paraffin cans against the apartment door where his wife was, lit a match, failed to escape and blew himself almost to hell. (Wikipedia has it that it was an 'accident' and that 'he was trying to break into his flat when he fell into a drum of paraffin') as you do of course I mean, keep a drum of paraffin outside your door. Perfectly normal.

His wife was unharmed but Booth suffered 3rd degree burns over nearly all his body and was hospitalised for some considerable time.