AMG powered SLC Build

Hello all,

A little while back, Fran mentioned that a customer purchased an SLC and that they "may' be planning to use a Mercedes Benz power plant. I have been very interested in knowing how this build is progressing or how it may have already turned out... (I have to remember not to compare other people's project timelines against mine...).

Ever since seeing the AMG engine used in the Pagani cars, I've have thought that it would be an awesome project for the SLC. I've spoken to Fran about this, and learned that while it is "do-able", it can be complicated and engine management can be a bit pricey.

But with that, I'd still like to know whether this build happened, and whether or not the owner feels that it was worth the complication, effort, and $$$'s. That is if they are willing to share.

I understand that some people don't like to give out many details of their build until it is complete.

Thanks,

Mike
 
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Fran Hall RCR

Moderator
GT40s Sponsor
Customer changed direction on that build once he saw the price of stand alone electronics I am afraid...
There are a coupe of guys doing some high end engine packages..R8 V8, V8 and V12 Ferrari..V10 Lamborghini...all of them require stand alone ECU and wiring
 

Hyder

Supporter
I'm using an R8 V8 in my SLC build. As Fran stated Standalone support is little to NONE. Especially for the GID - Direct Injection on the R8 package.
I'm stubborn enough to follow it through so far but its really been more difficult than its worth I think. Probably another year or two and you will see a lot more support for these powerplants.
 

Keith

Moderator
I'm using an R8 V8 in my SLC build. As Fran stated Standalone support is little to NONE. Especially for the GID - Direct Injection on the R8 package.
I'm stubborn enough to follow it through so far but its really been more difficult than its worth I think. Probably another year or two and you will see a lot more support for these powerplants.
Do you mean factory or after market? I always believed that all the factory was interested in was replacing the "power pack" not encouraging any fiddling or 'hot rodding'. As such it was always my understanding that the build concept of the Audi motors reflects this philosophy. A bugger to work with out of it's intended habitat and service regime.

I would be great if the aftermarket came to the rescue although the USA would probably be a superior source over Europe.
 

Hyder

Supporter
I mean aftermarket. Factory is VERY tight about any support for other than intended purposes!!
As for US market... We have NO support for GDI for more than 6 cylinder engines. Europe has a good start on this. I'm using a Life Racing Ltd | Motorsport Electronics unit from UK. There are a few others.
 

Fran Hall RCR

Moderator
GT40s Sponsor
Its not difficulty its just $$$$$ compared to ease and inexpensive GM/Ford OEM supported ecu and engine harness in the aftermarket
 
Are you also using the R8 transaxle? I have seen some guys around online who are converting the AWD transaxle to RWD especially for these sorts of applications. In fact, a reconditioned converted Audi R8 trans is quite reasonable price wise when compared to a new Porsche unit or the Mendeola. If you are going with the Audi trans, are you going with the manual or the tiptronic?


I'm using an R8 V8 in my SLC build. As Fran stated Standalone support is little to NONE. Especially for the GID - Direct Injection on the R8 package.
I'm stubborn enough to follow it through so far but its really been more difficult than its worth I think. Probably another year or two and you will see a lot more support for these powerplants.
 

Hyder

Supporter
I'm using the manual. Engine and Gearbox came from 1 of 13 New Car used/destroyed in Iron Man film. Yet another RCR connection to that film!!
 
Im building an Mercedes V12 SL-C - some Major Mods are needed , its in Progress - i post some Pix when ist roughly done..
Am interested to know if the MB/AMG V12 you are planning to use is the 4 valve M120 or the newer 3 valve turbo v12.

By the way, I lived & worked in Germany for a number of years in Wiesbaden area. Loved it.

Peter Lofthus
 
Im using the M120 in Combination with the R8-Gearbox - i have the 3-Valve m137 here too - but its some cm longer and has a lot of Compromises - the M120 is the better Engine in my Eyes .
Im Fitting it in the next few Weeks - then i see what Problems im facing beside the Length of the Engine .
Im living north from the Ruhrgebiet .
 
I'm still very interested in seeing how this turns out.

I went to the website for LIFE Racing, was interested enough to dig a little deeper.

MOTEC would probably be my other choice for engine management, in this scenario. Are you planning to use the F90 series controller?

They seem to make the necessary accessories available also. Sensors, harnesses, connectors, etc.

Please post your updates when you get a feel for how in depth this venture turns out to be.

I keep bouncing back and forth between the GM LS3/480 and the Mercedes 6.3 liter AMG engine. Since the Graziano can be mated to the Merc, the ECU seems to be the only thing blocking the path...

In my GTM build, there were so many things that initially seemed too cost prohibitive. And then as I thought more about them, I bit the bullet and worked through the cost in order to have it the way I wanted it. I just don't seem to be able to shake the concept of building an SLC with Mercedes AMG engine.

So I eagerly await your updates.

Thank you,

Mike
 

Hyder

Supporter
My cost on ECU, wiring harness, and Engine Dyno time - 15K. Using F90 ECU.
Biggest obstacle for my project was the direct injection. Without that it should be a lot easier. Not sure if any cheaper.
 
Stand alone ECU, Haltech has what you need, you might spend 2-4k depending on how many cylinders, coils, etc, but its not that hard, putting a bad ass engine in one of these cars, electrics is the least of the worries.

20 B Mazda 3 rotor in mine.

Wiring, I just make up my own harness for everything else, its not that complicated, most ECU's come with there own harness you route to each device, but I would rather wire up a car and get running then put the DOOR SHOCKS on.
 
Stand alone ECU, Haltech has what you need, you might spend 2-4k depending on how many cylinders, coils, etc, but its not that hard, putting a bad ass engine in one of these cars, electrics is the least of the worries.

20 B Mazda 3 rotor in mine.

Wiring, I just make up my own harness for everything else, its not that complicated, most ECU's come with there own harness you route to each device, but I would rather wire up a car and get running then put the DOOR SHOCKS on.
Unless you've got a DFI engine, then's it's not that easy. To do the wiring is of moderate difficulty, like for non-DFI, but the tuning is the hard part for DFI (GDI). I doubt that Haltech has any DFI-capable ECUs right now. Motec, Bosch & Pectel (Cosworth) can do DFI and it sounds like a couple smaller players like Life too. Those ECUs are all in the $6k+ range (Motec M142 seems to be the lowest) for just the base ECU + software. Then you've got wiring, sensors and dyno time to account for. Possible for sure, just expensive.

That said, I think a standalone ECU for any non-DFI is very doable. It's time-consuming and detail-oriented work, but it's not hard per se. There are lots of options for ECU vendors, so pick one that has run your engine before so you can get timing, base map, injector flow rates, etc. already set up for you.
 
My cost on ECU, wiring harness, and Engine Dyno time - 15K. Using F90 ECU.
Biggest obstacle for my project was the direct injection. Without that it should be a lot easier. Not sure if any cheaper.
Ok... Does that 15k include the Engine? Or is that literally the ECU, Harness, and Dyno time?

Mike
 
Ok... Does that 15k include the Engine? Or is that literally the ECU, Harness, and Dyno time?

Mike
That $15K is just for the controller and software with tuning. You need to supply the power train on top of that and then of course shipping back and forth.

They will be unique cars and i really look forward to seeing them and geeking out on the details (and getting a ride), but I'll personally be sticking with an LS of some flavor.
 

Hyder

Supporter
Last year Motec did not have an option for me for GDI. This year they sent me an estimate using an M142 Ecu and includes 2 days Dyno time - 20K.
 

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