Andrew Fordyce 302 Power-house
- Thread starter Chris Melia
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
Still got age on my side if not BHP!
Malcolm
Malcolm
Andrew,
WOW! What a beauty! If it runs as good as it looks, your competition will be getting
a good view of your tail lights in the
distance!
Bill
WOW! What a beauty! If it runs as good as it looks, your competition will be getting
a good view of your tail lights in the
distance!
Bill
G
Guest
Guest
Thanks for the posting Chris and for bringing all your photos for us to look at and to those of you who have posted your kind comments. I use the car for street and competition, so I've kept to a stock block with Edelbrock heads and Performer RPM cam with hydraulic lifters. We have run this set up on the Dyno with a Holley and the Webers, the 48 IDAs adding 40 bhp instantly.
Charles, I'm not shy about the final figures, it's 150 bhp less than Roy is getting from his Fontana blocked 350.
Oh, and Malcolm you need to be more respectful to your elders this year and make sure age always comes before beauty. Don't forget that a stallions running days are over when he's put out to stud.
Charles, I'm not shy about the final figures, it's 150 bhp less than Roy is getting from his Fontana blocked 350.
Oh, and Malcolm you need to be more respectful to your elders this year and make sure age always comes before beauty. Don't forget that a stallions running days are over when he's put out to stud.
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Guest
Guest
Malcolm
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Andrew:
What compression ratio are you running, and what do you run your car on? Over here, the best fuel you can get on the street is 93 octane. Also, what do the hp and torque curves look like? Is the engine peaky with the Webers, or are the curves fairly flat?
Also, what flywheel weight do you use?
I haven't finalized the motor specs yet (not to that point regrettably) so info is very welcome as it will help sort things out.
What compression ratio are you running, and what do you run your car on? Over here, the best fuel you can get on the street is 93 octane. Also, what do the hp and torque curves look like? Is the engine peaky with the Webers, or are the curves fairly flat?
Also, what flywheel weight do you use?
I haven't finalized the motor specs yet (not to that point regrettably) so info is very welcome as it will help sort things out.
Jim, Andrews engine runs at 10.5-1 on 95 or 95 ron fuel, peak power is at 5800 revs, at which it drops away. This will be overcome later by switching from hydraulic cam/lifters top solid, when the peak revs and power output will rise. Torque line is almost flat across the range. I would like to see peak power at 6500. The engine is fully balanced as a whole, and the flywheel is as near nuetral as we can get it on a steel crankshaft. Frank
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Guest
Guest
Jim
All UK guys running a 302 use a balanced flywheel to match the harmonic balance weight at the front of the engine as well as balancing all the engine internals. With the 302 being externally balanced, as far as I am aware, there is always a need to balance the flywheel as part of the engine balancing process. It is not a neutral balance! Do it all as a package and you will be fine. Even Roy who has tried to make an internally balanced engine needed some external balancing.
However another factor to consider is that we do not use a normal 302 flywheel as we run the renault gearbox. We use an Ford V6 (transit) flywheel which is then drilled to suit the renault or AP clutch cover depending on what you want with your clutch set up. Balance the clutch cover at the same time for perfection?
On the GTD set up, if you have an original factory supplied engine it is likely to be a marine 302. This uses a differing balance setup to the normal road engines. I originally bought a factory supplied flywheel (before I knew I could get my own made up cheaper!) and put it on my own sourced but road balanced engine. Nearly lost all my fillings with it out of balance as the flywheel was set up for a marine engine. Lesson learnt.
On petrol, over here, you can also get super unleaded which is 97 octance and some of us use that with additives to add lead and a bit more octane (98).
Gotta go, someone is at the door.
Malcolm
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]
All UK guys running a 302 use a balanced flywheel to match the harmonic balance weight at the front of the engine as well as balancing all the engine internals. With the 302 being externally balanced, as far as I am aware, there is always a need to balance the flywheel as part of the engine balancing process. It is not a neutral balance! Do it all as a package and you will be fine. Even Roy who has tried to make an internally balanced engine needed some external balancing.
However another factor to consider is that we do not use a normal 302 flywheel as we run the renault gearbox. We use an Ford V6 (transit) flywheel which is then drilled to suit the renault or AP clutch cover depending on what you want with your clutch set up. Balance the clutch cover at the same time for perfection?
On the GTD set up, if you have an original factory supplied engine it is likely to be a marine 302. This uses a differing balance setup to the normal road engines. I originally bought a factory supplied flywheel (before I knew I could get my own made up cheaper!) and put it on my own sourced but road balanced engine. Nearly lost all my fillings with it out of balance as the flywheel was set up for a marine engine. Lesson learnt.
On petrol, over here, you can also get super unleaded which is 97 octance and some of us use that with additives to add lead and a bit more octane (98).
Gotta go, someone is at the door.
Malcolm
[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]
Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Hi all,
Malc's right about the fuel - Super unleaded come's in at 97RON - however, Shell Optimax is said to be 98RON!! - DaveP and I use it in our Cosworth's running between 26 and 35 pounds of boost - no detonation!!
Very good fuel - we always fill the cans for the 40 / R42 - nothing but the best.
Also Malc, if you remember, you could get 100 octane fuel on the Isle of Man behind the Pits - but v-expensive. Unless you can tweak your ignition curves and possibly fueling easily - stick to one fuel type and tune for that.
Andrew - any chance of some LL100? - low lead 100 I believe its called, a low lead Avgas! from your friendly local airport??? - let me know.
[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: P Thompson ]
Malc's right about the fuel - Super unleaded come's in at 97RON - however, Shell Optimax is said to be 98RON!! - DaveP and I use it in our Cosworth's running between 26 and 35 pounds of boost - no detonation!!
Very good fuel - we always fill the cans for the 40 / R42 - nothing but the best.
Also Malc, if you remember, you could get 100 octane fuel on the Isle of Man behind the Pits - but v-expensive. Unless you can tweak your ignition curves and possibly fueling easily - stick to one fuel type and tune for that.
Andrew - any chance of some LL100? - low lead 100 I believe its called, a low lead Avgas! from your friendly local airport??? - let me know.
[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: P Thompson ]
G
Guest
Guest
Hi Paul
yeah I remember that fuel on IoM. Crickey was it expensive. £1.09 per litre (is that £5 or $7 per gallon?) which might really scare our US freinds here. Remember that mini using a mix of this fuel plus AvGas? Very quick but he was the one who got the line worng on Creg Ny Ba and did a triple roll or something and totalled his car. However we thought about giving the fuel a try but wimped out as we had no way of checking the effects at that time. Aaaah they were the days.
Malcolm
yeah I remember that fuel on IoM. Crickey was it expensive. £1.09 per litre (is that £5 or $7 per gallon?) which might really scare our US freinds here. Remember that mini using a mix of this fuel plus AvGas? Very quick but he was the one who got the line worng on Creg Ny Ba and did a triple roll or something and totalled his car. However we thought about giving the fuel a try but wimped out as we had no way of checking the effects at that time. Aaaah they were the days.
Malcolm
So you want some fuel with a higher
octane without the higher price ? NO PROBLEM ! Go to your local paint or hardware store and buy a gallon of cheap laquer thinner. Then add 6 oz. to every gallon of 92
octane. For every 2.2 ounces it will raise
the octane 2 points. so 6ozs a gallon gets you to about 104 octane. I wouldn't go
past 10 ozs per gallon. Laquer thinner contains tolulene and xylene which boosts octane level of gasoline. It's reasonably safe if you don't get carried away with mixing in too much. Tolulene can be bought
instead of laguer thinner but I would stay away from that. The vapors are heavier than air and can cause one hell of an explosion.
A very good friend of mine is a chemical
engineer. He has formulated all kinds of fuel additives. He does read this forum but has yet to post. Maybe he will chime in here and answer all the technical questions you guys my have. I know he is one of the best engineers that ever worked for AMOCO.
I also remember that there was another discussion in detail about this a year ago on another forum. I don't remember which one but many of the poster claimed that it worked very well. I have tried it and I did notice a huge increase in power.
Hersh
octane without the higher price ? NO PROBLEM ! Go to your local paint or hardware store and buy a gallon of cheap laquer thinner. Then add 6 oz. to every gallon of 92
octane. For every 2.2 ounces it will raise
the octane 2 points. so 6ozs a gallon gets you to about 104 octane. I wouldn't go
past 10 ozs per gallon. Laquer thinner contains tolulene and xylene which boosts octane level of gasoline. It's reasonably safe if you don't get carried away with mixing in too much. Tolulene can be bought
instead of laguer thinner but I would stay away from that. The vapors are heavier than air and can cause one hell of an explosion.
A very good friend of mine is a chemical
engineer. He has formulated all kinds of fuel additives. He does read this forum but has yet to post. Maybe he will chime in here and answer all the technical questions you guys my have. I know he is one of the best engineers that ever worked for AMOCO.
I also remember that there was another discussion in detail about this a year ago on another forum. I don't remember which one but many of the poster claimed that it worked very well. I have tried it and I did notice a huge increase in power.
Hersh
in the late 80's i had a 69 cougar with a 351 4v windsor, i used to run straigh 110ll avgas in it. its was kind of funny, no big or noticable puch or kick, but boy it ran so smooth, and it would spin a lot of rpms. i paid $1.75 a gallon at the time. the airport guys let me pull right up to the pump. those were the days.
Ron Earp
Admin
Alright - so back to the orginal post, what kind of hp numbers is that motor making and what are the specs on the cam and heads? Us US folks don't know all the inside characters for references on "150hp less that this one" etc. Folks still in the build stage want to know!
Ron
[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
Ron
[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
