Body Mods and Other ?s

[Guest]

I haven't read all the above postings so I hope I am not repeating anyone elses comments.

However Ray Christopher who designed the original GTD40 now runs a spyder version in competition. This was worked from a standard body. He always gets grief that now it is an open car over his roll bar as it barely complies with the regulations for competition. Hence he has this thing sticking up out of the roof which is most un-gt40 like! Roy Wing who shares the car is even taller and has to squat down to comply.

The GTD option of chopped doors came from a chap called James Shaw who got caught in a traffic jam on a very hot day. He got home and just took a saw to the door and cut it off. Then it was filled and pegs put in so that it slid on or off as required. when the door was shut the lip which is screwed to the underside of the door top (on a GTD) held it down and so stopped it blowing away. For a rain seal two strips of neoprene were stuck on the filled edges so they compressed together when the door shut.

Not many people have done this to their car.

The other option which is far less dramatic is to make removable side windows. Either just unscrew them or do as our editor did and use a velcro fixing. How that works at speed I don't know but for a road car it seemed ok to him. I have run without windows and it is very pleasant.

Malcolm

 

[Bob Putnam]

Just to clear up the apparant weight anomaly - the '65 block was a bit lighter that the 302 blocks that are currently available. The new ones have heavier webbing and are better able to cope with the usual power mods.

 

[Gary Gibbs]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeDD:
Matt

I'd say you can build an
EQUALLY reliable small block, making the same horsepower (up to 600 hp) for less money. I'm referring to the FE motor.

MikeDD<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would tend to agree with this. Using the right aftermarket parts you could make reliable 600 Hp small block (up to 440 CI it seems using Dart Block) maybe $10k-11k built by a professional shop. Same with the FE (~525 CI with Shelby Alum Block). I would guess the weight is close to the same (within 50 lbs). The cost would probably be significantly higher with the FE maybe $17k. Just a guess as I have not priced out the FE option in a while.

The difference is that the FE will make more torque and not wind as high. The 351 will make its power maybe a 1000 RPM higher or something like that. It would be nice to see some Dyno 2000 simulations with realistic motor and head flow parameters.

I may try this as I have Dyno 2000 and can get some flow numbers from the AFR site. The FE flow numbers will be harder.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: CCX33911 ]

 

Thanks for clearing up any misconceptions I had, maybe I was reading some outdated material talking about the smaller block tendencies to have metal fatigue or problems when bored out and maxed out-It doesn't surprise me, with the technology and metal advancements in engines the last 30 years, that engines could pack as much power in a smaller package.

I like the idea of the removable windows, I've not seen a t-top or removable top yet that didn't throw off the "flow" design of the car. has anyone ever made doors that would allow windows that simply rolled (even just halfway) down? It seems with the extra width between the door and the seat that something could be fashioned. What about clear panels on the roof like the bolt on side windows? (a funky idea, make it feel more "open", but that could get ugly though)

Well, what modifications would produce the most dramatic torque results with a 351w? Is there a particular year or block "style" that I should consider? I've heard that older blocks tend to be better in terms of bore, etc.

I had thought about adding aftermarket parts in two stages with some good mods up front, and some more higher performance mods for a winter project a few years later. Is this a good idea? Or should I just bite the bullet and get it all at once?

I'm doing the engine rebuild/parts hunt for awhile until I get my $ up for the car, probably 2-3 years.

I'm also shopping around junkyards for complete 351W engines (seen a few around $100-$150) that I can break down for rebuild and replace parts. Is this a good idea or should I look into ordering a new block? (engine kits etc)

Is the 351C a good option? I realize the parts are harder to find and it could be more expensive, but I saw one in a pantera at a show with twin turbos

(license plate read "it flies"), and I'll be damned if I didn't have to wipe my drool before I walked away.

The owner said it made close to 800hp at 6000rpm-thought it sounded a bit high though? But a very nice looking/sounding engine with a Little Caesar's Pizza doll on the corner with the stick and sign that read "turbo! turbo!"

Last question

what are the main differences between the different mk bodies?

Any experience you could share on some of these topics would be great, THANKS!

-MaTT

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: MaTTerZ ]

 

[Ian K]

Thanks Jim.

As I said, I'm not going to do it myself,
but the idea of trying to use the Subaru
style looks like a neat alternative.
Might try it just to see if I can fit an
SVX unit in the door (when i start building
of course).

BTW, how's the Ferrari coming along?

Ian

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Inch by inch. Will post more photos soon. It does take your breath away. Ferrari recast the uprights in alum. I'm machining them now. They are works of art.
Best
Jim

 

I think I can recall that the Swiss coachbuilder Sbarro fitted wind down windows to at least one GT40 along with other customising features. Regards

 

[Ian K]

Wow, lots to answer. I'll do what I can, and
others will chime in to fill in more info or correct as
necessary.

Junkyard blocks - although cheaper, make sure
you get it thoroughly checked out (flux it!) -
you want to make sure it isn't in the junkyard
because of the block. Also, if you plan on
boring/stroking it, make sure you have enough
material to do it (most rebuilt engines need
some boring to clean them up, so a junker
might have been rebuilt once).

351C - a great engine (Ford Hemi

), but
aftermarket parts are not nearly as abundant
as Windsor engines. Also, deck height will
become an issue -- you'll have to lower the
cradle to ensure a good fit. A Windsor based
stroker will put up comparable numbers, and
the parts will be cheaper on the whole.

GT40 body styles -
MkI looks like all of the basic replicas
available - RF, CAV, Tornado, GTD, ERA, etc.
MkII had a redesigned rear clip and added
periscope vents - check out the MkII ERA
has on their site.
MkIII was the road car. Different nose, headlights,
rear clip. Search the older posts here for
some good pix of a MkIII replica belonging to
Chris Melia. Also, the old GT40 Enthusiasts
site has some pix as well in the for sale
section:

http://www.gt40club.clara.net

MkIV was a complete change. Again, look for
some old posts by MKIV-J6 here. He owns an
original MkIV.

MkIB - this would be the Gulf cars of '68 and
'69, flared rear, slightly flared front.

As far as roll-down windows, I've been thinking
about it myself some. I don't want them, but
am trying to figure out how to do it. The
problem is the angle of the door where the
window is. If it were to roll straight down
at that angle, it would go through the side
of the door! Perhaps a set up similar to the
Lambos or even the Subaru SVX, where part
of the window rolls down, would work. One
of the guys who owns a DRB replica on this board
has such a set up (a la Lambo) where the
bottom half of the window rolls down.

HTH,

Ian

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Ian K ]

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Dear Ian
Roll down half windows can be done. My Lola
has this set up.(There's a photo of it showing the side window on an earlier thread)
I believe MKIII's had roll down windows as well but I'm not sure.
Best
Jim

 

[Peter Delaney]

GT40 Australia (DRB) offer a MKIII side window kit - a f/glass frame, fixed front quarter window & a main window which is hinged at the front. This main window flips out about 4" at the back, or locks closed via a roll-over latch at the back. This latch can be disconnected, the window opened out to about 8" & then can be lifted right off - all in about 30sec. I have fitted these to my DRB, but am fixing the whole assembly to the door with c/s bolts into helcoils. This will let me swap this setup for the standard 1-piece original windows as required (show days, etc. for originality). The swing-out windows are more practical for everyday driving - providing heaps of fresh air & allowing you to pay tolls without opening the door !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Peter Delaney]

Sorry about the pic - here's another go !

 

Peter, that's a nice window setup you pictured-

I had envisioned the windows like they used to have on the DeLorean or the Subaru as mentioned by someone else in an earlier post. But the line that runs through those sort of throws off the "flow of the car" look IMHO, so I think the setup you provided would look more correct.

But is the Aussie company's windows going to be able to be fitted with a different company's car? I know the differences are subtle in dimension and shape between most replica companies, enough to not be able to swap windows though?

-Matt

 

[Peter Delaney]

Matt, let me know if you want the exact dimensions of the f/glass window frame. I only had to trim about 1/8" off the edges of the frames to fit the doors, so there is not a lot surplus there to play with if your door openings are bigger than the DRB. If necessary, you could extend the edges - I had to do this fun little job along the complete front edges of the doors to get the gaps right. Its not a hard thing to do, you just have to like sanding !

Lynn, I have also had some slow / non responses from Peter Ransom via email, so now I just ring him (61 7 5529-1655)- he is almost always there & is very helpful. Next time I speak to him, I'll ask about the email situation. If you need anything from PR, let me know & I'll talk to him (better than you staying up till 2am !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Guest]

Matt, I have seen the option, uninstalled and the frames are composite, so as long as the window form size in your GT40 isn't so far off as to look really weird, the frames should be able to be fitted to your kit. I am sorry that I have to editorialize here, but I tried to contact Peter Ransom (GT40 Aust.) on more than one occasion and have yet to get a response from him. Similar experiences have been related to me by others. If you decide you like this option, GOOD LUCK with trying to purchase it. I am tempted to call Dennis Bretton (DRB) directly and find out what the heck is going on down there. Dennis designed all of that stuff and was good to work with. He has some pretty nice inner door treatments as well. It is just a shame that the marketing company is so un-responsive!

[ July 24, 2002: Message edited by: Lynn Larsen ]