Coyote or SBF

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
I don't know about Tom using a laptop but I can imagine him in his Saturday Night Fever bell bottoms cutting the rug in his garage listening to the BeeGees! Ha

I'm confused, are we talking mutable or immutable Maps? What is recursion anyway? I hope my old brain doesn't burn out anytime soon or I'll be living under a bridge in a van(with a carburetor).

private Object deepCopy(Object object) {
try {
if(object instanceof Boolean) return new Boolean(((Boolean) object).booleanValue());
if(object instanceof String) return new String(object.toString());

if(object instanceof Map) {
ImmutableMap.Builder builder = ImmutableMap.builder();
Map entries = (Map)object;
entries.forEach((key, value) -> builder.put(key, deepCopy(value)));
return builder.build();
}

return null;​
}
catch (Exception e) {
e.printStackTrace();
return null;
}
 
All I know is that when I hit 55, I stopped being interested in technology. I want my old mercury thermostat back. I don't want a car that beeps at me every time I do something it doesn't like. If I want to watch a movie, I miss the anticipation of running down to Blockbuster and renting a movie. It would be much better if my teenage daughter got a phone call on the home phone that was hanging on the wall in the kitchen so that, as a parent, I would be able to monitor who she's talking to and for how long.
 
I love and embrace technology, but I also enjoy the contrast of no-tech and simplicity when appropriate.

Hey Mike (aka "Java Boy"), 30 yrs ago it was Angel Flights and King of the Hustle! Now it's mostly Metal. LOL BTW, left you a message last night....answer the phone, beeyotch!

All kidding aside, I think a point that javaboy is trying to make (in a roundabout way), is that technology, the programmers, the hardware/software, firmware/software upgrades, all cost time and a ton of money. If you're going with a Coyote or newer engine, seriously consider your budget that goes with the basic cost of the engine/ECU/wiring package. Engine tuning, switchable calibration files and the dyno time that goes with it, the heavy Ricardo transaxle sticking out back to handle the extra power, and so on, will cost you more money.
 
I'm starting to re-think the Weber EFI thing. I was looking into it more today and what I'm finding is that real cost by the time you buy everything needed and have some tuning time on a dyno, you can be looking at $7-8K just for the induction setup. Plus the engine has to be built just right to work with the downdraft setup.

Versus a Holley carb and intake for about $1200. More to think about.
 
Again, since I’m basically building a modern car and I’m leaning a modern power plant.

Today’s Saleen supercars don’t have carbs.

I’m 59 years old and still like grunge and maybe a little Chevelle (the band), age or musical preference tells you only how you feel.

I want a replica GT40 but only in body style and interior. I think performance and handling will speak for themselves. If I had the money, I’d go twin turbos and 750 hp!

Haha, I can barely afford an in line 6. This is a work in progress.
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Sorry, and to each their own but I have never understood the whole GT40 resto mod attraction? If you want to turn some nondescript 66 Fairlane into a resto mod then go for it. Why go for an approach that says I'm going to upgrade half the components on a iconic 1960s race car to modern spec but leave the rest i.e. 1960s aero dynamics and less the optimal weight distribution to start with? Mine with a little bitty alloy block 302 and ZF was still very close to 70/30 rear bias. You put a huge Coyote and a Ricardo in there and that thing is going to be evil nearing the limits.

Build a GT40 as a GT40. If you want modern chassis bits and engine management then build a modern car... say like a GT-R with a Coyote and Ricardo! That would be sweet!! I would just have some private off forum conversations with current customers before I wrote the check...
 

Mike

Lifetime Supporter
Java boy is calling you now. Answer damnit! haha

I love and embrace technology, but I also enjoy the contrast of no-tech and simplicity when appropriate.

Hey Mike (aka "Java Boy"), 30 yrs ago it was Angel Flights and King of the Hustle! Now it's mostly Metal. LOL BTW, left you a message last night....answer the phone, beeyotch!

All kidding aside, I think a point that javaboy is trying to make (in a roundabout way), is that technology, the programmers, the hardware/software, firmware/software upgrades, all cost time and a ton of money. If you're going with a Coyote or newer engine, seriously consider your budget that goes with the basic cost of the engine/ECU/wiring package. Engine tuning, switchable calibration files and the dyno time that goes with it, the heavy Ricardo transaxle sticking out back to handle the extra power, and so on, will cost you more money.
 
Sorry, and to each their own but I have never understood the whole GT40 resto mod attraction? If you want to turn some nondescript 66 Fairlane into a resto mod then go for it. Why go for an approach that says I'm going to upgrade half the components on a iconic 1960s race car to modern spec but leave the rest i.e. 1960s aero dynamics and less the optimal weight distribution to start with? Mine with a little bitty alloy block 302 and ZF was still very close to 70/30 rear bias. You put a huge Coyote and a Ricardo in there and that thing is going to be evil nearing the limits.

Build a GT40 as a GT40. If you want modern chassis bits and engine management then build a modern car... say like a GT-R with a Coyote and Ricardo! That would be sweet!! I would just have some private off forum conversations with current customers before I wrote the check...

Like I said, this is a work in progress and I’m a few years away from a power plant. I’ll probably change my mind 100 times.

After seeing the coyote gt40 with the 8 stacks, it was pretty sexy.

I’m working on my suspension. I don’t even have a body yet. Chassis and suspension is all I’m working on now. I have no idea what it will be when completed. I’ve only had the chassis one month.

Cut me a “little” slack :)
 
Like I said, this is a work in progress and I’m a few years away from a power plant. I’ll probably change my mind 100 times....Cut me a “little” slack :)
Naw, we're not cutting you any slack. LOL

You are years away from a powerplant, so this discussion is a waste of time. In a few years you'll be considering newer than Coyote technology like perhaps electric "crate" motors and a CV transmission to go with it. ;-)
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
...after carefully and in great detail trying to explain the nuances of a non-original GT40 to some half interested neophyte, [you] will begin to question the dogma and associated costs that drives the originality debate.

Which is exactly why I don't lose any sleep over my choice of EFI or SBF vs LS/Coyote, or RCR vs SPF (well, budget actually made that choice for me).

I agree completely with Mike, build YOUR car the way you want it and let that make you happy. If you're worried about resale or someone else's perceived value or opinion of your car, then build it the way you think they'd want it. Otherwise, pick the path of your personal desire.

Regardless of which brand, if they know what it is, everyone will assume it's a kit car (How many originals are out there being driven on the streets aside from Jim's?). If they don't know, it will be the first question you're asked. There are brands (like the one I bought) which will never be mistaken for originals... Make it your own, and make it what you want.

Chris
 
Since there will never be a right answer to this question because it’s subjective in nature, let me ask a question that will have a definitive answer.

Which engine would be easier to set up and sort out?

The coyote has a computer but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy. The SBF is old school and I would have a better understanding of it, but it will still need a lot of fine tuning to make it right.

So which would be easier to set up and sort out?
Personally I think a SBF would be easier to setup, especially a mild power setup. From the standpoint of electrical and mechanical connections the SBF is really as basic as it gets and even the moderately capable should be able to get a motor installed and hopefully fired up.

The Coyote can be a challenge for even experienced builders. But there are some advantages to having a Coyote or even a simple Weber style eight stack fuel injected version. First of all fuel mileage is far better, and the power is pretty good stock at 425 HP.

The Coyote can be bought used on average between $5-7K USD. You have a complete engine now with only minor parts needed to get going.

The SBF will cost you the same doing a ground up build or a crate engine. For me it makes more sense to get a Coyote but its a bit more challenging and you should be prepared for long nights.

I would use the Holley EFI FORD COYOTE TI-VCT CONTROL MODULE ECU PART# 554-145, it is stand alone plug and play.
 
Which is exactly why I don't lose any sleep over my choice of EFI or SBF vs LS/Coyote, or RCR vs SPF (well, budget actually made that choice for me).

I agree completely with Mike, build YOUR car the way you want it and let that make you happy. If you're worried about resale or someone else's perceived value or opinion of your car, then build it the way you think they'd want it. Otherwise, pick the path of your personal desire.

Regardless of which brand, if they know what it is, everyone will assume it's a kit car (How many originals are out there being driven on the streets aside from Jim's?). If they don't know, it will be the first question you're asked. There are brands (like the one I bought) which will never be mistaken for originals... Make it your own, and make it what you want.

Chris
Well said and I agree!
 
Very much enjoying this thread. A coyote in a gt40 is my long time dream, and hopefully can pull off one day. As previously said, it's definitely a long term vs resale, modern tech vs classic, and value vs cost differences. I'm more performance with modern tech driven. That and you've got 2 of the all time best ever Ford products in 1. (Excluding new gt)
 
Well I decided what I’m doing. I went and bought a Gen II Coyote. 435hp out of the box.

I also got lucky and picked up a set of headers (bundle of snakes) all being delivered this week.

I’m actually further along in my build than I thought I’d be only 8 months in. Chassis is done, suspension is done, shifter and brakes all done.

The engine will have an 8 stack intake and I actually saw some old school style valve covers (below although I don’t know where to get them) that would make the engine look like a big block Ford.

As said earlier in this thread, I doubt anyone would be able to tell unless you’re a geek like me.

My car will have a modern suspension, modern drivetrain, an original look and original looking interior. The only thing that may give someone a clue may be the 17” wheels and possibly some modern technology on the dash, but outside of that, this will look very much like it came from 1966.

Now my next controversial subject...

MKI or MKII body? I’m leaning MKII, but that also seems to spur controversy.

PS: I know the tires are different, I’m getting Hoosier rears soon.
 

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