Doug’s RCR Jaguar D Type Build.

Doug M

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Quick sidestep before I get too far downstream… I thought someone asked about this but I can’t find the post.

Anyway, oil filter clearance was solved. Once I made a 2” hole in the side of the transmission tunnel so that the engine and automatic transmission could line up square, the oil filter issue became less of a problem. For good measure, I removed the oil filter housing and carefully removed some of the thickness with a sanding disc on my grinder. Once it was all out back together, I have about a 1/4 inch clearance. Also, did a practice oil filter swap with the manifold and carbs on the engine and it’s not as difficult as I thought it would be, so no need for a remote filter, which is good.

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Also, had a local metal place make me two 5x6 inch aluminum plates the same thickness as the chassis. Ground off the sharp edges and drilled out a 2” hole. I’ll use silicon to waterproof it when I put it on permanently. A lot of hacking and hassle to move the transmission a few millimeters to the side, but it made all the difference.
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Doug M

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Back to the steering. I’ll be pulling the engine out today and hopefully finalizing a location for the power steering. The electric motor is quite large, so options are limited. Thought about putting it inside the footwell, but with the pedal box, there’s not a lot of room.

I also pondered using a 1:2 or 1:1.5 steering quickener if the power steering proves to be impractical to install.
 

Chuck

Supporter
Doug

Moving our D across the ramp at the airport this past week - Ryan steering and me pushing - the steering was light and required little effort. That would be close to finished weight with the drive train in place and the passenger compartment full of parts.

Despite the weight of the engine little effort is required at walking speed.

I suspect the narrow tires and the steering rack ratio contribute to the light steering effort.

Just FYI as you ponder whether adding electric steering is warranted.
 

Doug M

Supporter
Thank you Chuck. I looked at every possible mounting location for the electric power steering motor and it is just too big to be used. I spent the weekend installing the steering setup pretty much like you did. I did some test turns with the engine and transmission in the chassis and it turned without too much exertion when compared to my 57 Chevy before I installed power steering. I imagine that I’ll get used to it quickly. Thankfully I bought the 16” steering wheel.
 

Doug M

Supporter
I’m happy to report that the
brake caliper fitment issue has been solved.

A quick update from my previous post about it… So after being told by RCR that I was sent the wrong calipers, it turns out I was sent the correct ones after all. Not sure how the confusion happened, but there it is. RCR sent me several spacers and longer pins to cure the fitment issue. But, I didn’t think this was an acceptable solution because it… A). Added close to two inches of additional width between the front wheels, and B). Provided nothing for the clearance issues of the rear wheels, which came with thick metal washers on them for the chassis to actually roll.

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I took a page from the BOC (Book of Chuck) and purchased the slightly narrower left and right calipers that he recommended on Page 14 of his build thread. Wilwood part numbers 120-13383-BK for the Left hand side and 120-13382-BK for the Right.

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I wasn’t thrilled about spending money for parts I had already bought, but if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right, especially when it comes to brakes. They fit perfectly and spacers are no longer needed for the caliper to be centered on the rotor. So this eliminated the need for one of the three RCR wheel spacers.

After much staring, I had a rare brainstorm… why not change out the bolts in the actual wheel? I did some looking and found the M6x14 button head bolt was lower and wider and eliminated the need for a washer. This bolt gave me and extra 4.5 mm of clearance on the inside of the wheel, which may not sound like much, but it eliminated the need for another spacer. I installed them with Threadlock blue, torqued them down, and let them sit for a few days to see if there was any air loss. So far, they’re working fine.

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So the front wheels and calipers are perfectly set up with the stock pins and just one of the three spacers were needed up front. I’ll use the extra spacer to solve the rear wheel fitment issue.

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Ian Anderson

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Randy V

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You may want to get hold of Fran to see if you can return the unused parts for credit or refund….
 
Had a meeting at RCR to check on the progress of my "D". Everything seems to be progressing nicely with a delivery promised in the very near future, actually should be any day. The product looks to be outstanding and my family was treated very well during the visit.

I asked about the oil filter adaptor that I had been told they were fabricating. In an earlier post I had passed along second hand information from my engine builder stating that it was his belief that they could provide one that eliminated the clearance issues. That information is incorrect. RCR is not fabricating that adaptor. Sorry for sharing anything that ended up being incorrect, though I had stated it was second hand info. Those adaptors are available online.

In regard to the wheel clearance issue. RCR stated that they are providing a spacer for the front wheels that eliminates the problem. They have also redesigned a bracket that attaches to the rear axle that will eliminate any clearance issues there. From what I saw these two things are being provided and hopefully are an easy fix. The front wheels on my car were turning freely and the brackets for the rear were just finished and in the process of being attached, so I could not try them out. There was car that had them in place and everything seemed okay.
 

Doug M

Supporter
Gentlemen, I need some sage advice to quell my concerns. My occasional tendency to overthink and over-engineer things has taken me down a rabbit hole as of late. My idea of incorporating power brakes into my D Type, while feasible, has made things more complex. This takes away from one of the many aspects that drew me to this car in the first place… pure simplicity.

My entire car experience has been with big 5,000 pound GM cars with stock brake systems and drum brakes. Thus, my heavily engrained mentality is…

Power Brakes = Gift from a loving God

Manual Brakes = Say goodbye to your hip and knee cartilage, and probably your face.

So, from those with more custom building experience, what sort of stopping performance can I reasonably expect from a manual brake system in a 2,500 pound car with rear disc brakes and front 6 piston disc brakes? With a proper pedal ratio (5:1 or 6:1), will it stop as good as a power brake system? Or at least reasonably close?
 

Neil

Supporter
Gentlemen, I need some sage advice to quell my concerns. My occasional tendency to overthink and over-engineer things has taken me down a rabbit hole as of late. My idea of incorporating power brakes into my D Type, while feasible, has made things more complex. This takes away from one of the many aspects that drew me to this car in the first place… pure simplicity.

My entire car experience has been with big 5,000 pound GM cars with stock brake systems and drum brakes. Thus, my heavily engrained mentality is…

Power Brakes = Gift from a loving God

Manual Brakes = Say goodbye to your hip and knee cartilage, and probably your face.

So, from those with more custom building experience, what sort of stopping performance can I reasonably expect from a manual brake system in a 2,500 pound car with rear disc brakes and front 6 piston disc brakes? With a proper pedal ratio (5:1 or 6:1), will it stop as good as a power brake system? Or at least reasonably close?
The braking performance will depend on quite a few things. The rotor diameters and the brake pad friction coefficient will play important parts. With big rotors and high friction pads, a non-boosted brake system should work OK.
 

Joel K

Supporter
Doug, I would also post this question and search on the Factoryfive forum. Your Jag will be similar in weight to a Cobra and 1000s of them have been built with both manual and power Wilwood and/or Mustang calipers.

I had a 3200 pound Chevy Corvette with 4 piston manual brakes when I was 19 years old. And it was a workout to get that car to stop with confidence. I would think to Neil’s point with the right brake pads you could make the car stop really well, but IMO it won’t be close to the feel of power brakes.
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
...with the right brake pads you could make the car stop really well, but IMO it won’t be close to the feel of power brakes.
Agreed. I have no problem with the manual brakes on the GT and think they are well matched to the car. I think Joel and Neil are right on- with properly spec'd components, it shouldn't be an issue. It will feel like a different animal, but should be able to provide an enjoyable experience- the analogy might be an acoustic vs an electric guitar. Both are fun to play but they do things differently.
 
Manual brake allow much more setting and control of driving the car if you are enought courageous to install a "decent "pedal with 2 separate MC
This allowing you to have a brake balance system
Such an arragement have bee done and is perfectly demonstrated on Chuck thread of this forum
just look at the ecellent work he did and hope you will be convinced to stay on manual brake BUT improving of course the parts and tub you got on your kit !!!!!
 

Randy V

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I’ve had very good results after having built a half dozen Cobras by using a 6:1 pedal ratio along with properly sized (hydraulic multiplication) Master Cylinders along with 2# residual valves to maintain the volume needed for high pedal and full stroke if ever needed. That said, I understand you have some physical challenges, so what works for me and my customers, may not work that well for you.
If you are also doing power steering, you may want to look into a Hydroboost unit off of an older GM Dually or Diesel pickup truck. Much smaller than a vacuum servo…
 

Doug M

Supporter
Thanks all. I’m weighing my options for manual brakes. I modified (butchered) the Tilton pedal box that RCR provided to be brakes only. I’ll mount it above the footwell and design my own 6:1 or 7:1 pedal for it. Not sure of the exact placement yet or if I will use the onboard reservoir or remote reservoir. That will all get sorted out as other pieces come together
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If using this pedal box you will need to built under the dash the shaft pedal housing as per an idea I did in CAD for Chuck in order to get an 6 or 7 pedal ratio,unless fitting this willwood pedal box on aluminium block to give room to the pedal shaft out side and not inside
Just there for you a remind of a quick study done ( and posted at that time ;) ) before Chuck did his own steel welded pedal box with shaft pedal being
outside the top panel locating pressure pedal point correctly under foot
 

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