So these are no go?
Electric water pump and digital controller question
- Thread starter JHeinke
- Start date
Howard Jones
Supporter
Well, they will work, but the remote mount version like the Meziere below is the same pump and motor but you can place it in a much more efficient location. You will also have the added clearance and serviceability of placing it down low, close to the engine cold side inlet, in the engine room where it best fits.
These may of some help, You will need to have a look at your motor and chassis and see.
www.meziere.com
If you used them then you would want to use the two output pump;
www.meziere.com
or this: lots of LSx electric water pump adapters,
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/icb-551564?rrec=true
These may of some help, You will need to have a look at your motor and chassis and see.
Block Adapter Set, GM LSx to #12 female
Our line of cooling system accessories currently includes items such as: backing plates, block adapters, thermostats, pump spacers, and water manifolds.
www.meziere.com
If you used them then you would want to use the two output pump;
Electric Pump Remote, High Flow Inline, Dual out, 55 GPM
Our line of cooling system products currently includes items such as: electric high flow water pumps, cooling system accessories, recovery tanks and radiators.
www.meziere.com
or this: lots of LSx electric water pump adapters,
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/icb-551564?rrec=true
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Here's a couple of pictures of the front plumbing on an LSx. First is the Davies Craig complete set up including the pump. This is what I mean about mounting location, low and below water volume. The other is the front of the engine with the adapters on it. Just make and run AN hoses to pump. The outlet would use an AN T adapter and hoses.
I would probably make some of this stuff myself, especially the t adapters. But it's all available just google LSx front dress for remote water pump. Or summit racing LS electric water pump adapters.
I would probably make some of this stuff myself, especially the t adapters. But it's all available just google LSx front dress for remote water pump. Or summit racing LS electric water pump adapters.
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Scott
Lifetime Supporter
The only advantage to using a direct replacement pump is that you don't need to deal with belt routing which can range from easy to a real headache. However, as Howard points out the stock location makes the pump work harder. In addition, you'll likely need to pull the engine to service the pump and you'll have only a few options from which to choose.
Going with a remote pump provides you with a large number of options including OEM pumps which have also been proven in endurance racing. Note that a remote water pump should allow you to slide the engine forward which can be very beneficial in a mid-engine car. This is certainly the case in a SL-C where a LS engine can be slid forward over one inch.
Going with a remote pump provides you with a large number of options including OEM pumps which have also been proven in endurance racing. Note that a remote water pump should allow you to slide the engine forward which can be very beneficial in a mid-engine car. This is certainly the case in a SL-C where a LS engine can be slid forward over one inch.
Julian
Lifetime Supporter
One of the biggest advantages of a remote mount pump in a mid engine vehicle like the GT40 or Pantera is that the mechanical water pump pulley usually protrudes into the cabin space (the hump between the seats), a remote mount electric pump allows for a flat firewall.
When I spoke with Meziere they recommended having the pump in the engine bay not up front in an electric only application. For connections to the block one can take and old mechanical pump and strip the guts out of it, weld over the shaft hole to create a cheap connection plenum. That is what I did for my prior KVA GT40.
As Howard states most systems overheat in traffic when there is minimal air flow assist over the radiator and the engine is idling i.e. pump at the slowest speed. In a mid engine vehicle there is a significant head loss with all the piping, bends etc. and pump efficiency can reduce significantly, be sure to account for this as pump manufacturers sometimes quote open flow rates. Although my earlier comment was dismissed, I do personally believe a dual 'booster' pump system is ideal in a GT40 or Pantera with long complex pipe runs, pumps operating in series have a cumulative impact, the increased inlet pressure of the second pump helps. The electric 'booster' pump only need supplement at idle in traffic etc. However, the Meziere is not a flow through design for a 'booster' pump application.
When I spoke with Meziere they recommended having the pump in the engine bay not up front in an electric only application. For connections to the block one can take and old mechanical pump and strip the guts out of it, weld over the shaft hole to create a cheap connection plenum. That is what I did for my prior KVA GT40.
As Howard states most systems overheat in traffic when there is minimal air flow assist over the radiator and the engine is idling i.e. pump at the slowest speed. In a mid engine vehicle there is a significant head loss with all the piping, bends etc. and pump efficiency can reduce significantly, be sure to account for this as pump manufacturers sometimes quote open flow rates. Although my earlier comment was dismissed, I do personally believe a dual 'booster' pump system is ideal in a GT40 or Pantera with long complex pipe runs, pumps operating in series have a cumulative impact, the increased inlet pressure of the second pump helps. The electric 'booster' pump only need supplement at idle in traffic etc. However, the Meziere is not a flow through design for a 'booster' pump application.
Anyone willing to share base settings for the Davies Craig controller in a GT40 configuration.including fan controll.
Starting a conversion at the moment with the EWP130 (cast alloy) combo. (Rover 3.5) after a waterpump failure (modifiet shorted RV8 waterpump, 2 years ago UK build, 3minuts running)
New Davies Craig 130 now plumbed in (not wired yet)..
Starting a conversion at the moment with the EWP130 (cast alloy) combo. (Rover 3.5) after a waterpump failure (modifiet shorted RV8 waterpump, 2 years ago UK build, 3minuts running)
New Davies Craig 130 now plumbed in (not wired yet)..
Howard Jones
Supporter
I left mine set to the default coolant target temp of 191F. Be SURE to mount the sensor in the hottest point of the coolant system, usually at the top of the intake manifold. I do not use a thermostat with the Davies Craig controller and pump.
I tried putting mine in the front, much like yours but moved it back to the engine room. The outlet of the pump is directly connected to the cool side inlet to the engine with their Y manifold. This will allow the highest coolant pressure and coolest water to be directly applied to the hottest place with the shortest distance.
I have continuously improved my coolant system by just using the one DC pump and a lot of ducting development and upgraded radiator and I am happy with the performance so far. I have an SLC with 450HP and use it only on track.
I do not rule out an additional pump. If I do that I will place it at the inlet to the radiator (hot water coming from the engine). This effectively devices the coolant system into two sections with the pumps only being required to pump have way around. You could leave your pump where it is and see how it goes. Just be sure to mount the temp sensor in the top of the intake manifold.
Note: I think I see yours right to the left of the pump. I will not work there. That spot will never get hot unless the pump comes on but the engine will get hot as hell without the pump running. Ask me how I know ...........................
I tried putting mine in the front, much like yours but moved it back to the engine room. The outlet of the pump is directly connected to the cool side inlet to the engine with their Y manifold. This will allow the highest coolant pressure and coolest water to be directly applied to the hottest place with the shortest distance.
I have continuously improved my coolant system by just using the one DC pump and a lot of ducting development and upgraded radiator and I am happy with the performance so far. I have an SLC with 450HP and use it only on track.
I do not rule out an additional pump. If I do that I will place it at the inlet to the radiator (hot water coming from the engine). This effectively devices the coolant system into two sections with the pumps only being required to pump have way around. You could leave your pump where it is and see how it goes. Just be sure to mount the temp sensor in the top of the intake manifold.
Note: I think I see yours right to the left of the pump. I will not work there. That spot will never get hot unless the pump comes on but the engine will get hot as hell without the pump running. Ask me how I know ...........................
I have the pump up front like your's and the sensor in the radiator pipes up front also. i have an additional water temperature gauge in the manifold and its very close to the pump sensor reading. I would say put the sensor where its most conveniant it will make little difference. I also have the unit controlling my fans and the whole unit does a great job keeping the engine cool.
Howard Jones
Supporter
I problem I had with the location of the sensor was when the car was cold:
Car turned on, pump cycles for 30 seconds or so, sensor tells controller water is cold, pump turns off, engine gets hot, water in pipe (forward located sensor) at front of car is still well below target temp, pump controller does not turn on pump, engine gets REAL hot.
Moved sensor to intake manifold : controller is told actual engine temp in real-time and pump controls water temp before it over heats with varying pump cycle time.
Car turned on, pump cycles for 30 seconds or so, sensor tells controller water is cold, pump turns off, engine gets hot, water in pipe (forward located sensor) at front of car is still well below target temp, pump controller does not turn on pump, engine gets REAL hot.
Moved sensor to intake manifold : controller is told actual engine temp in real-time and pump controls water temp before it over heats with varying pump cycle time.
Pump up front, sensor top of the intake manifold, where coolant exits the engine. (thermostat removed, by-pass blocked)
Have to figur a decent spot to fit the lcd screened controler yet.
What base setting to start with for the controler..
Have to figur a decent spot to fit the lcd screened controler yet.
What base setting to start with for the controler..
Howard Jones
Supporter
Post #27 for coolant temp target. (191F) This is the default for the controller.
Has anyone used this block style of adapter? Davies Craig has seemed to move to this style. I think this 417 version seems better designed (and for the price). I think I'm going to go with it.
Davies Craig Block
417 Adaptor block
Davies Craig Block
417 Adaptor block
I had my pump modifiet at the machine shop.
They removed axle and bearings and put a plug in it.
They pressure tested it also.
I can reuse my cooland hoses. It also takes less space now.
They removed axle and bearings and put a plug in it.
They pressure tested it also.
I can reuse my cooland hoses. It also takes less space now.
Scott
Lifetime Supporter
That block looks a lot better the old tube approach that they used to have (maybe they still have it as an option)
JP's approach will also work. I've seen people take the impeller out of the stock pump which maintains all of the hose locations and provides the option to keep the pulley for belt routing purposes. However, if you don't need the pulley I wouldn't modify the stock pump for a mid-engine car; it adds weight and the outlet is in a bad location.
I used AN fittings as shown below. You obviously need two Y's, but that's trivial to plumb. You also need to make provision for a heater circuit if you have one. I was able to do all of it without any Y's by welding tubes to the pump inlet cap, pump outlet cap and the stainless tube in the side pod.
JP's approach will also work. I've seen people take the impeller out of the stock pump which maintains all of the hose locations and provides the option to keep the pulley for belt routing purposes. However, if you don't need the pulley I wouldn't modify the stock pump for a mid-engine car; it adds weight and the outlet is in a bad location.
I used AN fittings as shown below. You obviously need two Y's, but that's trivial to plumb. You also need to make provision for a heater circuit if you have one. I was able to do all of it without any Y's by welding tubes to the pump inlet cap, pump outlet cap and the stainless tube in the side pod.
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Howard Jones
Supporter
I think the water pump modification is a good idea and if I was retrofitting an existing installation with an engine with a mechanical pump to an electric one I would more than likely do the same thing. Especially if the existing setup had a complicated serpentine drive belt setup where you could just remove the impeller in the pump and level the rest alone.
My SLC was more or less a virgin front dress with only an alternator to drive so I went with a standalone plumbing method. Both will work just fine.
Brian, it looks like you milled off the front of the pump and plugged the hole. That looks really finished. Nice work.
My SLC was more or less a virgin front dress with only an alternator to drive so I went with a standalone plumbing method. Both will work just fine.
Brian, it looks like you milled off the front of the pump and plugged the hole. That looks really finished. Nice work.
I bought the 417 manifold and Pierburg CWA400. Now I'll only have the alternator on a pretty short belt and I don't have to cut my firewall. Pics to follow. Pretty easy decision there, though I Haven't decided if I'm using AN or hose yet. I may weld a AN fitting to the pump.
I'll be watching your progress Scott. I like the direction you are going, and may use that in my build.
Regards Brian
Regards Brian
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