Engine block, how much and which one

[TrevS]

Hi all

I've started trying to look at my engine for my Tornado. I know I want a small block 302 powered car and I want a period correct late 60's block if I can get one to help with the emissions test on the SVA and also for originality.

So my question is, what sort of block should I be looking out for and how much should I be budgeting for a good solid block that doesn't need any kind of restoration? Also are there any real gems out there that are worth hunting for as I read the Boss 302 4 bolt main bearing block is the strongest block you can get. Therefore is this one to look for?

Also with the blocks are owners concerned regarding the original source of the block. For example would an original GT40 block be worth more than say the mustang equivalent, so is provenance and history important?

Finally I've seen a few race blocks advertised. What are the main differences between these and regular blocks?

Sorry for all the questions but I figured this would be the best place to start finding out info.

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Start here :- Ford Racing Performance Parts

 

[Mike Huddart]

Start here :- Ford Racing Performance Parts

You can't run anything new in the UK unless you want to meet the latest emission regs with catalytic convertors.
You need a pre August '93 block with an accreditation certificate to prove it.

Mike

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Mike - I thought a pre 1 Aug 1975 block was still a smoke test?

 

[TrevS]

Hi guys

First off I will be looking for an old block (ideally late 1960's). So assuming this is suitable for a blue smoke test at the SVA how do I get the relevant paperwork? Should a certificate come with the block or is this something you apply for via DVLA etc?

Now ignoring crate engines, new stuff etc lets say I want to build up my own engine and for now just focus on the block. What blocks are best to look for from that are period correct for GT40s and what should I be allowing for in terms of budget?

Trev

 

[Mike Pass]

There are several blocks on Ebay from from a dealer called eurocores at about 350 for the complete unit. Engine gurus like Mike Huddart may have what you are looking for and know the good stuff from the junk. Check that they are the correct year. The year code is cast into the underneath of the ledge at the side and can only be seen from below. The first letter is the decade and the next digit is the year. eg C7 is '67, D5 is '75 etc. The year evidence is cast into the block. The third letter is the model of car it came from. eg Z is Mustang D is Falcon. I would not use the block as is. It needs to be checked over very carefully for cracks etc. A block on standard bore would be good as it will have plenty of meat left for a rebore. Standard bore is exactly 4.000". The very minimum would be a rehone assuming the bores are not worn or oval. They would need a very careful measurement to ensure they are OK.
I personally would want the block faces skimmed (they can be 15th out ) so that it is square and then rebored and honed +30. A meticulous clean with all the oil galleries scrubbed out is vital. Engine brushes are cheap. It can take all day to get a used block clean. Have it tanked if you can to get all the old crap and varnish off it. New cam bearings, new core plugs and screw in oil gallery plugs are a very good idea.
Remember the block is the foundation stone of your engine so it pays to get it right. I paid about £200 for a good Mustang 302 block on standard bores.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Pat]

If you are interested in some online adventure, you may wish to consider searching some of the Midwestern USA sprint car sites. Look for a Ford sprint engine that was originally built to Midwest 305 rules. There are numerous sites to consider for your search.
For example:
Ford 302-305 sprint For Sale
Ford Racing M-6010-C451 Aluminum Sprint Car Engine Block

The route I took was to use a reputable engine builder. When I ran the numbers, that ended up being the most cost effective and hassle free. My engine was done by the Engine Factory and it’s now ten years old and still runs like a watch.
Ford Crate Engines, Mustang Engine,Cobra Replica Engines, Ford Stroker Engine, Ford Truck Engines, 302,347, 427w, Ford Performance Engines

Also consider some of the GT40s.com site sponsors:
Keith Craft Performance Engines
Performance Engineering: Home - Performance and racing engine machine shop, engine installations, crate engines, and dyno service near Cincinnati in Ross, Ohio
Forged Piston | Stroker Kits | Crate Engines

 

[Scott Calabro]

Trev,

60's vintage 289 and 302 engines pulled from old cars pop up for sale over here on a regular basis.

Email me your budget and I'll start looking for a good used block and crank if you want.

You will only need a couple of hundred GBP + shipping.

66 mustang motor&trans.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Mike Huddart]

Mike - I thought a pre 1 Aug 1975 block was still a smoke test?

Brett,
pre '75 is visible smoke only. '75 to '93 is basic emission check as per MOT standards for that period. Any properly built engine will sail through without a problem ( unless you try fitting 48 IDAs !)

Mike

 

[Mike Huddart]

Hi guys

First off I will be looking for an old block (ideally late 1960's). So assuming this is suitable for a blue smoke test at the SVA how do I get the relevant paperwork? Should a certificate come with the block or is this something you apply for via DVLA etc?

Now ignoring crate engines, new stuff etc lets say I want to build up my own engine and for now just focus on the block. What blocks are best to look for from that are period correct for GT40s and what should I be allowing for in terms of budget?

Trev

Trevor,
the bare block does not need a cerificate, the complete engine using an appropriate block, as presented for the IVA test, does.

Mike

 

[TrevS]

Ok so looking at my small block ford book I can see that for a period correct 302 block I should be looking for block numbers:

302
C8OE-A, -B
C8TE-B

Boss 302
C9ZE
C8FE

Does this sound correct and again which is the better block to go for and how rare/expensive are these?

 

[David]

Where (or from who) do you get a certificate?

 

[Mike Huddart]

Where (or from who) do you get a certificate?

Me.
Mike

 

[Andy Green]

You can't run anything new in the UK unless you want to meet the latest emission regs with catalytic convertors.
You need a pre August '93 block with an accreditation certificate to prove it.

Mike

Hi Mike,
is this a service you can provide? I've built my own engine and I've got a photo of the block casting number, which dates it as a '74 Fairline 302 block.
Regards,
Andy

 

[TrevS]

might have found a block

OK guys thanks for all the responses so far

It seems that blocks are fairly easy to find then but getting a good one might take a keen eye or buying from a reputable builder/specialist. I originally had decided to just outsource all the engine work to someone like Mike.

However an opportunity has come up to buy a C8FE race block straight from an original GT40 in good used condition which is what prompted me to start this post. I want to try and understand if the block might be worth going for, it's reliability as a road car engine and to understand what the alternatives are.

From looking around the internet it seems these blocks are quite rare and therefore might be a nice addition to my car. However rather than jump in with both feet I want to make sure the block would be suitable.

Has anyone got any experience with a C8FE block in particular a race block?

Trev

 

[Mike Huddart]

Ok so looking at my small block ford book I can see that for a period correct 302 block I should be looking for block numbers:

302
C8OE-A, -B
C8TE-B

Boss 302
C9ZE
C8FE

Does this sound correct and again which is the better block to go for and how rare/expensive are these?

Why don't you broaden your search and look for ANY 289 block, they are all in the '60s

You only need any of those blocks for the numbers, better to go for a mid '80s on block with the one piece crank seal, they look the same as the early ones ( more or less ) and you won't have to send endless " why is my rear main oil seal leaking " posts !

Mike

 

[Mike Huddart]

Hi Mike,
is this a service you can provide? I've built my own engine and I've got a photo of the block casting number, which dates it as a '74 Fairline 302 block.
Regards,
Andy

Andy,
yes, we can do that but unfortunatly, due to all the cheats and fiddling that goes on we will only do it now on inspecting the engine in the car that is going for IVA.
However if you are not in any rush then I am often in Norfolk and could combine a visit with something else.
Mike

 

[TrevS]

Why don't you broaden your search and look for ANY 289 block, they are all in the '60s

You only need any of those blocks for the numbers, better to go for a mid '80s on block with the one piece crank seal, they look the same as the early ones ( more or less ) and you won't have to send endless " why is my rear main oil seal leaking " posts !

Mike

There is no real reason I am looking at these blocks but I thought seeing as I am replicating a 60's car then do many replica builders try and get a correct period block?

I want my car to be a good replica with the right bits on it and this C8FE has been offered to me if I want it, is period correct and has GT40 history with it. To me that makes it sound like a great opportunity to make my car stand out from the crowd a little but I am not the expert so I need some advice as its easy to get romantic about anything with the word 'original' attached to it.

 

[Andy Green]

Andy,
yes, we can do that but unfortunatly, due to all the cheats and fiddling that goes on we will only do it now on inspecting the engine in the car that is going for IVA.
However if you are not in any rush then I am often in Norfolk and could combine a visit with something else.
Mike

Hi Mike,
I'd really appreciate that. Drop me a PM next time your planning to come over this way and we'll set something up

Regards
Andy

 

[Mike Huddart]

Hi Mike,
I'd really appreciate that. Drop me a PM next time your planning to come over this way and we'll set something up

Regards
Andy

Andy,
generally I try and avoid Ebay ( seeing as it has effectivly knackered my parts sales business ) but by sheer coincidence, 10 minutes ago, I bought a nice pair of 19th Century wagon wheel jacks and a mint set of potato sack scales ( I DO have faults ) from.........Norfolk.
If you want to PM me you're contact details I will find out exactly where my prize purchases are ( somewhere near Norwich ) and I will work something out.

Mike.

PS. the charge for the certificate will be a couple of bushels of King Edwards.