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I believe Blackjack hit the nail on the head... Thank You Blackjack....
ERA GT
- Thread starter SCOTT CAREY
- Start date
If you just have to have a replica 40 that is close to the original then pay the big bucks for an ERA or better yet step up to a Safir. However if you admit that you are going to drive a replica I think Ron is correct. There are some very fine choices out there for signifecantly less money. I have never seen an ERA perform any better on the road or the track. My GTD has been on the road since 1991 and has done about 10,000 road miles plus 6,000 track miles and runs great. It doesn't require constent fiddling and is reliable. The only thing that has broken or worn out is the Clutch slave cylinder. I did upgrade the brakes, the clutch master cylinder, the radiator and the fans when I was building the car. These upgrades sure didn't get me into kinds of dollars. It is not a matter of being in favor of one car over another. It is a matter of VALUE.
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I don't see any bias in Ron's statements and I think that his lack of bias is at the heart of his statements. We as non-ERA owners or non-GT40 owners can view the various offerings that are, at long last, available now through unbiased eyes. If I had an ERA, I would probably feel exactly like Blackjack, but I think I'd be a little less dogmatic than eragtforty--that is just human nature.
Eragtforty, they are damned nice cars plain and simple. The people building them care about quality and nobody would say they don't. They have priced their car the good old American free market way: the law of supply and demand. That said, ERA is not the only one building damned nice cars, nor are they the only ones who care about quality, BUT the market has changed. Supply and demand are both up, but it appears supply is getting ahead of demand. Beyond all of that, with the offering of actual monocoque chassised cars using several different materials from several of the new companies, there are cars out there that are argueably better cars than ERAs technically. This makes ERA, barring any adjustment to pricing, both new and used, worth a bit less. Will ERAs lead the market? Well of course they will, but they won't demand the hefty differential they have in the past. (Well, they may demand it and occasionally someone will pay it.)
Let me equate it to the industry that I am in. In years gone bye when you bought either a mainframe or midsized computer, Data General, DEC and Prime, to name a few, built midsized computers at prices lower than mainframes but still got huge margins on them because they were the only other game in town. As things changed and Unix boxes of equal or more power and the PCs with nearly the same amount of processing power became available, these guys maintained their elitest attitudes and demanded premium prices. You may or may not know that none of those computer companies are around anymore because they couldn't bear the thought that they weren't the biggest baddest thing around short of a mainframe and did not adjust to changing market forces.
And, I claim there is not one shred of bias in my statements, just the way I see it. With respect to Bud's statement above, I am sorry, but I just don't think that they are that close to the real thing and I think Bud is being quite kind. They are a skin clad space frame replica that is build very well, but this doesn't make them any closer than any other replica that can use a ZF - IMHO. Holman Automotive's car(s?) are the closest to the real thing as far as I can tell (I will have to take everyone's word on Safir) and I would not put ERA in that class. I would venture to say that some of the new monocoques are much closer than an ERA, again, technically speaking. But they are VERY nice cars!
[ July 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lynn Larsen ]
Eragtforty, they are damned nice cars plain and simple. The people building them care about quality and nobody would say they don't. They have priced their car the good old American free market way: the law of supply and demand. That said, ERA is not the only one building damned nice cars, nor are they the only ones who care about quality, BUT the market has changed. Supply and demand are both up, but it appears supply is getting ahead of demand. Beyond all of that, with the offering of actual monocoque chassised cars using several different materials from several of the new companies, there are cars out there that are argueably better cars than ERAs technically. This makes ERA, barring any adjustment to pricing, both new and used, worth a bit less. Will ERAs lead the market? Well of course they will, but they won't demand the hefty differential they have in the past. (Well, they may demand it and occasionally someone will pay it.)
Let me equate it to the industry that I am in. In years gone bye when you bought either a mainframe or midsized computer, Data General, DEC and Prime, to name a few, built midsized computers at prices lower than mainframes but still got huge margins on them because they were the only other game in town. As things changed and Unix boxes of equal or more power and the PCs with nearly the same amount of processing power became available, these guys maintained their elitest attitudes and demanded premium prices. You may or may not know that none of those computer companies are around anymore because they couldn't bear the thought that they weren't the biggest baddest thing around short of a mainframe and did not adjust to changing market forces.
And, I claim there is not one shred of bias in my statements, just the way I see it. With respect to Bud's statement above, I am sorry, but I just don't think that they are that close to the real thing and I think Bud is being quite kind. They are a skin clad space frame replica that is build very well, but this doesn't make them any closer than any other replica that can use a ZF - IMHO. Holman Automotive's car(s?) are the closest to the real thing as far as I can tell (I will have to take everyone's word on Safir) and I would not put ERA in that class. I would venture to say that some of the new monocoques are much closer than an ERA, again, technically speaking. But they are VERY nice cars!
[ July 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lynn Larsen ]
OK Boys...fight nice.
Seriously, I believe the question was whether
the price asked for this particular car was fair and it sounds like it is in the ballpark
when compared to other ERAs.
Then the discussion evolved into a "value"
comparison between different makes, which
is akin to comparing girlfriends...a subjective evaluation to say the least.
But a lot of fun!
I think we all agree that since there are now more choices than ever before, we consumers can realize more value in a GT40
purchase, and the choices we make depend
on our own personal tastes/budgets/etc.
At the end of the day however, we should all be united in thanking Ford for building a fun
car, and thanking those that provided us the freedom to buy and enjoy them.
MikeDD
Seriously, I believe the question was whether
the price asked for this particular car was fair and it sounds like it is in the ballpark
when compared to other ERAs.
Then the discussion evolved into a "value"
comparison between different makes, which
is akin to comparing girlfriends...a subjective evaluation to say the least.
But a lot of fun!
I think we all agree that since there are now more choices than ever before, we consumers can realize more value in a GT40
purchase, and the choices we make depend
on our own personal tastes/budgets/etc.
At the end of the day however, we should all be united in thanking Ford for building a fun
car, and thanking those that provided us the freedom to buy and enjoy them.
MikeDD
If one were to want a nearly exact copy of a Mk II then call Lee Holman.
I agree with Mike. The value of this forum is what we have in common (love for GT40's) and not our differences (my latch is chrome and yours is stainless).
I am glad to see other manufacturers come to the market. It gives everyone choices. Kind of like what happened in the Cobra replica market. I own a Contemporary which has taken a long while to build and is of very good quality. Then along comes Superformance with a nice valued factory built car. Also FFR comes on the market and gives others even more options. A totally different world then the Cobra market was just 10 years ago.
I think we have seen and will continue to see a similar development in the GT40 market.
I agree with Mike. The value of this forum is what we have in common (love for GT40's) and not our differences (my latch is chrome and yours is stainless).
I am glad to see other manufacturers come to the market. It gives everyone choices. Kind of like what happened in the Cobra replica market. I own a Contemporary which has taken a long while to build and is of very good quality. Then along comes Superformance with a nice valued factory built car. Also FFR comes on the market and gives others even more options. A totally different world then the Cobra market was just 10 years ago.
I think we have seen and will continue to see a similar development in the GT40 market.
I'm just glad to see that everyone is
happy with the brand they picked. And if
you squint your eyes just right they all
look the same.
Jerry's (eragtforty) car is one fine example
of an ERA. I have seen it up close and personal and I can tell you that it is a very impressive replica.
Jerry was very helpful to me when I started
my build. He allowed me to go over his car
with a fine tooth comb. He answered tons of
questions.
Lynn, I'm sure your computer analogy will
work well with Jerry. I believe he is the
SI manager of a large corp. that uses those type of systems.
Oh, one last thing, My RFGT40 is the best, period.
(for me)
Hersh
happy with the brand they picked. And if
you squint your eyes just right they all
look the same.
Jerry's (eragtforty) car is one fine example
of an ERA. I have seen it up close and personal and I can tell you that it is a very impressive replica.
Jerry was very helpful to me when I started
my build. He allowed me to go over his car
with a fine tooth comb. He answered tons of
questions.
Lynn, I'm sure your computer analogy will
work well with Jerry. I believe he is the
SI manager of a large corp. that uses those type of systems.
Oh, one last thing, My RFGT40 is the best, period.
(for me)
Hersh
i know exactly what i want! era dash-interior
cav chassis-suspension and price, air conditioning , gulf rr body, zf box, webers. as far as rh drive ... i like the idea (originality) but i'm not dead set on this point. i definitely want a finished car.my wife wants a baby as part of the deal so i dont see myself having time to build a car (i built my porsche race car and its a lot of work)
cav chassis-suspension and price, air conditioning , gulf rr body, zf box, webers. as far as rh drive ... i like the idea (originality) but i'm not dead set on this point. i definitely want a finished car.my wife wants a baby as part of the deal so i dont see myself having time to build a car (i built my porsche race car and its a lot of work)
No wanting to take exception with the ERA performance statement earlier but I would like to point out that the GTD I saw in Ohio had all steel wheel uprights. Mine are all aluminum. Is there anyone going to tell me that increased unsprung weight is NOT going to effect the handling of a car?
Please don't let this start a fight. It's just simple physics. Nothng we can do much about unless someone can change the acceleration of gravity. Mag-Lev GT40 anyone?
Please don't let this start a fight. It's just simple physics. Nothng we can do much about unless someone can change the acceleration of gravity. Mag-Lev GT40 anyone?
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Mark, I think all Aussie and USA built cars now have aluminum uprights. I am not positive the ones from South Africa. You are right, you can't change the laws of physics. And your ERA is probably a beautiful car that anyone of us would be proud to own and drive. (I am trying to stress that I am NOT anti-ERA just trying to interject a little objectiveness.)
OK guys, this has gotten a little rough.
Let's not get all Windows vs. Mac please
$85K for a built and painted ERA is a pretty
decent price reagrdless of the competition.
Some pros for the car you're looking at:
* Kevlar/graphite reinforced roof - AFAIK, none
of the competition has done something like
this. Either pure fibreglass or steel bonded
to fibreglass (like the originals) -- neither
has any structural improvement.
* Inner and outer panels molded seperately,
then bonded together with gaskets -- most
just glass it together - improves body life.
*cabin ventilation -- the rear roof vent is
a great touch, with water traps and drain pipes -
wish others would follow suit.
Some minuses:
* If it's not stainless steel semi-monocoque,
saltwater can have a devastating long term
effect -- be careful in Oceanside!!
* Stock brakes and shocks - although good
enough for road and limited track use, if you
intend on more serious performance, they are
a little lacking.
* No AC - not a real problem in Oceanside tho'
(lived in San Diego for 12 years, a few weeks
of 90+ F is not too bad). If you want to
add it, the ERA piece, although very functional,
is pretty ugly and takes up space. Fitting
a different custom system might be better.
* Brass radiator -- upgrade to aluminum!
The engine, as Ron observed, could use some
tweaking, but that can wait.
As far as comparisons to what else you can
get for that price, a CAV monocoque might be
cheaper, but not by that much. And a complete
RF will also come close. And, I still think
a ZF makes up for the difference. Audi/Getrag
might be cheaper, but I'll wait to see what
can be done to get it to handle 400 lbs. ft.
of torque. The ZF is rated to 500!
My 2 cents.
Ian
Let's not get all Windows vs. Mac please
$85K for a built and painted ERA is a pretty
decent price reagrdless of the competition.
Some pros for the car you're looking at:
* Kevlar/graphite reinforced roof - AFAIK, none
of the competition has done something like
this. Either pure fibreglass or steel bonded
to fibreglass (like the originals) -- neither
has any structural improvement.
* Inner and outer panels molded seperately,
then bonded together with gaskets -- most
just glass it together - improves body life.
*cabin ventilation -- the rear roof vent is
a great touch, with water traps and drain pipes -
wish others would follow suit.
Some minuses:
* If it's not stainless steel semi-monocoque,
saltwater can have a devastating long term
effect -- be careful in Oceanside!!
* Stock brakes and shocks - although good
enough for road and limited track use, if you
intend on more serious performance, they are
a little lacking.
* No AC - not a real problem in Oceanside tho'
(lived in San Diego for 12 years, a few weeks
of 90+ F is not too bad). If you want to
add it, the ERA piece, although very functional,
is pretty ugly and takes up space. Fitting
a different custom system might be better.
* Brass radiator -- upgrade to aluminum!
The engine, as Ron observed, could use some
tweaking, but that can wait.
As far as comparisons to what else you can
get for that price, a CAV monocoque might be
cheaper, but not by that much. And a complete
RF will also come close. And, I still think
a ZF makes up for the difference. Audi/Getrag
might be cheaper, but I'll wait to see what
can be done to get it to handle 400 lbs. ft.
of torque. The ZF is rated to 500!
My 2 cents.
Ian
So maybe we can all agree to stop the GT bashing here. Hey, everyone enjoys the cars. Some are more concerned with replica authenticity and have to pay for it. When it comes down to it, the cars are very similar and performance differences should be minimal if the other manufacturers have followed Eric Broadley's suspension design as has ERA. It's hard to beat a Lola.
If you talk to Lee Holman he'll tell you Shelby redesigned a lot of the suspension. Nothing against Carrol but he used to simply shoehorn large American engines into English cars. He's not the chassis genius like Eric.
Carrol sorted out the Colotti transmission explosions and shoehorned in a 427 and a 4 speed. I doubt there were any major changes other than spring & shock rates to the original suspension though.
Peace and eternal GT enjoyment to us all.
If you talk to Lee Holman he'll tell you Shelby redesigned a lot of the suspension. Nothing against Carrol but he used to simply shoehorn large American engines into English cars. He's not the chassis genius like Eric.
Carrol sorted out the Colotti transmission explosions and shoehorned in a 427 and a 4 speed. I doubt there were any major changes other than spring & shock rates to the original suspension though.
Peace and eternal GT enjoyment to us all.
Just a re-statement of earlier. There are several really nice 40's available. GTD has a great competetion history going in the UK and Sweden and from what I have seen on the west coast good cars go fast regardless of the manufacturer. Unsprung weight, original suspension or redesigned such as GTD-RF-Sabre etc. makes for good bar racing but on the track most of us can't drive the good cars to their full potential anyway. Again the issue is value. Is a good replica 40 worth 85,000? I won't sell mine for that unless I can,t drive it anymore.
HEY, GUYS - - -
I HAD NO INTENTION OF CREATING A CONTROVERSY. HOWEVER - IT LOOKS LIKE THE AIR IS "NICELY CLEARED". I, EVIDENTLY, MISREAD SOME OF THE POSTS. (A PROBLEM AT 1:00 AM.) IF SO, I APOLOGIZE. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT FORUM WITH ROOM FOR A LOT OF DIFFERING OPINIONS AND AS AN OLD FRIEND OFTEN SAID, "MANNERS IS THE LUBRICANT THAT KEEPS THE WHEELS OF SOCIETY TURNING".
THE MORE MANUFACTURERS - THE MORE GT-40'S WILL BE PRODUCED SIMPLY BECAUSE A BROADER MARKET WILL BE DEVELOPED. THE MORE THE MERRIER. I THINK THEY'RE ALL GREAT CARS WITH JUST ENOUGH DIFFERENCES TO MAKE THEM INTERESTING AND TO APPEAL, COLLECTIVELY. TO A BROADER MARKET - - JUST LIKE ALL THE VARIETIES OF COBRAS.
RON - THANKS FOR THE INFO ON WHERE TO FIND WEBERS. I REALLY WANT TO PUT A SET ON MY GT-40. IT'S THE NEXT PROJECT AFTER/IF I EVER GET THAT &%%#^^%$$ COOLING PROBLEM SOLVED.
THANKS FOR BEING GREAT GUYS AND REAL GENTLEMEN,
BLACKJACK
I HAD NO INTENTION OF CREATING A CONTROVERSY. HOWEVER - IT LOOKS LIKE THE AIR IS "NICELY CLEARED". I, EVIDENTLY, MISREAD SOME OF THE POSTS. (A PROBLEM AT 1:00 AM.) IF SO, I APOLOGIZE. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT FORUM WITH ROOM FOR A LOT OF DIFFERING OPINIONS AND AS AN OLD FRIEND OFTEN SAID, "MANNERS IS THE LUBRICANT THAT KEEPS THE WHEELS OF SOCIETY TURNING".
THE MORE MANUFACTURERS - THE MORE GT-40'S WILL BE PRODUCED SIMPLY BECAUSE A BROADER MARKET WILL BE DEVELOPED. THE MORE THE MERRIER. I THINK THEY'RE ALL GREAT CARS WITH JUST ENOUGH DIFFERENCES TO MAKE THEM INTERESTING AND TO APPEAL, COLLECTIVELY. TO A BROADER MARKET - - JUST LIKE ALL THE VARIETIES OF COBRAS.
RON - THANKS FOR THE INFO ON WHERE TO FIND WEBERS. I REALLY WANT TO PUT A SET ON MY GT-40. IT'S THE NEXT PROJECT AFTER/IF I EVER GET THAT &%%#^^%$$ COOLING PROBLEM SOLVED.
THANKS FOR BEING GREAT GUYS AND REAL GENTLEMEN,
BLACKJACK
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lynn Larsen:
I am not positive the ones from South Africa. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I noticed in my inspection of the CAV at SAAC-27 it had custom CNC'ed aluminium uprights front and rear. The control arms are Cr Moly Steel that is Nickel or Cad plated. They look sort of like smooth stainless steel.
I am not positive the ones from South Africa. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I noticed in my inspection of the CAV at SAAC-27 it had custom CNC'ed aluminium uprights front and rear. The control arms are Cr Moly Steel that is Nickel or Cad plated. They look sort of like smooth stainless steel.
Scott, for my money I would buy the ERA. It more closely resembles the original. Mark is correct.
Mark, how is your car. You may remember me. I tracked you down about two years ago after contacting the person you bought the car from. You advised at that time that you had not touched the car but would not sell same as you were going to build it for your girlfriend! Does she ever get to drive the car?
Scott give me a ring. I was going through some of my old papers and remembered two GTD cars I was negotiated on which were very cheap. Both cars were completed and were under 45k.
As far as the other ERA I emailed you about, it appears that based upon the car number, one of the forum members purchased it.
Good luck in your endeavors.
Mark, how is your car. You may remember me. I tracked you down about two years ago after contacting the person you bought the car from. You advised at that time that you had not touched the car but would not sell same as you were going to build it for your girlfriend! Does she ever get to drive the car?
Scott give me a ring. I was going through some of my old papers and remembered two GTD cars I was negotiated on which were very cheap. Both cars were completed and were under 45k.
As far as the other ERA I emailed you about, it appears that based upon the car number, one of the forum members purchased it.
Good luck in your endeavors.
well guys ,I think i'm going to go look at the car and decide if the era is worth the extra $ (not as much extra as I first thought!) after doing some math on the beautiful and impressive cav here is what i came up with roller 60,000
engine 5,000
zf trans 7,500
webers 3,000 good used?
air con 2,600 i know the era doesnt have it misc. 2,500 there always is!
grand total 80,600
add ca sales tax and throw in some registration hassles and you get 86,800 plus hassles now the 85k era ($1,000 65 ford cpe as far as the ca dmv is concerned)starts to look pretty good!thanks! if any one has any tips to share before i go to look at the era
letem rip! thanks again! Scott Carey
engine 5,000
zf trans 7,500
webers 3,000 good used?
air con 2,600 i know the era doesnt have it misc. 2,500 there always is!
grand total 80,600
add ca sales tax and throw in some registration hassles and you get 86,800 plus hassles now the 85k era ($1,000 65 ford cpe as far as the ca dmv is concerned)starts to look pretty good!thanks! if any one has any tips to share before i go to look at the era
letem rip! thanks again! Scott Carey
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Scott
Ask BoB P what improvements have been made in the newer kits.
LLoyd
Ask BoB P what improvements have been made in the newer kits.
LLoyd
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Scott,I just think you must compare apples for apples,you are trying to compare a 15yr old ERA with a new RF or CAV which does not make sense.Older replicas as with any other cars have problems such as corrosion, not just in chassis areas but in cables,calipers,
wiring etc,how are the fuel bladders? the list goes on.What you dont want to do is spend $85 on the car then $20 and ,many hours sorting it out and still have an old car? Why has this ERA done so few miles,is it reliable ,practical,you should be asing yourself these questions.
Thats my 2 cents
wiring etc,how are the fuel bladders? the list goes on.What you dont want to do is spend $85 on the car then $20 and ,many hours sorting it out and still have an old car? Why has this ERA done so few miles,is it reliable ,practical,you should be asing yourself these questions.
Thats my 2 cents
