God Bless Howard Estes

[Scott Calabro]

:thumbsup:

snopes.com: Letter to President Obama - Harold Estes

 

[Mike Christian]

Harold lies - he is not wrinkle free. How can you agree with the rest of his opinion when he starts out that way?

 

[Chris P.]

A pretty poorly written and empty letter in my opinion. Although I have the most respect for our older generation and certainly those who have served in the military, whoever wrote that letter makes no good points and was better off spending their time writing to Bush2.

 

[Randy V]

A pretty poorly written and empty letter in my opinion. Although I have the most respect for our older generation and certainly those who have served in the military, whoever wrote that letter makes no good points and was better off spending their time writing to Bush2.

It's obvious - to me - that you and I only share one thing in common.. The love of the GT40.

 

A pretty poorly written and empty letter in my opinion. Although I have the most respect for our older generation and certainly those who have served in the military, whoever wrote that letter makes no good points and was better off spending their time writing to Bush2.

Christopher,,,,,, I disagree,,,,,BUSH 2 could not and can not read

Also, this letter from "Harry" starts out with a BIG LIE.

He says "I am not wrinkled",,,I have seen his picture. He has more wrinkle than,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Ron R.]

It's obvious - to me - that you and I only share one thing in common.. The love of the GT40.

Randy,

I hate to point out errors, but you could be wrong.....

What proof do you have that he loves GT40s? :0

 

[Ron R.]

BTW, I wish people would stop lumping BUSH2 in with the conservatives...he most certainly was not. He may have been the lesser of two weevils, but definitely not a conservative.

So, nothing more than a straw man in my estimation.

Carry on.

 

[Jim Craik]

BTW, I wish people would stop lumping BUSH2 in with the conservatives...he most certainly was not. He may have been the lesser of two weevils, but definitely not a conservative.

Now the re-write of history begins?

 

BTW, I wish people would stop lumping BUSH2 in with the conservatives...he most certainly was not. He may have been the lesser of two weevils, but definitely not a conservative.

So, nothing more than a straw man in my estimation.

Carry on.

I agree, his father, mother and brothers were all "elephants", how he turned out to be a JACKASS of an elephant,, we will never know

But then again the "Donkeys" do give birth to spineless, gutless weasels that claim to be Donkey.

Bush2 is kinda like Jimmy Carter,,,,we can always remind the citizens 20 years from now,,,,,,,,"Hey remember when your heads were up your ASSES and you voted for these guys,,,,,SMAAAAAART"

 

[Chris P.]

In this case, I am not lumping Bush2 in with anybody - quite frankly I believe he is in a class of his own!

The reason I responded the way I did was that whoever wrote that letter seemed to miss the mark completely. I have spoken to friends who have traveled abroad - Europe and Africa mostly, and they have seen a lot of views of America that paint us in an arrogant light. For Obama to say what he supposedly said shows that we as a country do care how we perceive the rest of the world and how it perceives us. Every day I hear republicans talking about how off track their own party has gone - it's no different; these are people are just being honest about what the situation is. All because we have citizens who have given their lives for our country in foreign lands doesn't give us the right to act however we want and saying this is not disrespecting them. It is not news that Bush2 did a lot to harm our international stature. To continue this and to not acknowledge it to the rest of the world would be disgracing the fallen because that is not the America they were fighting for. Besides, the way the writer wrote that passage lumps all of our dead throughout history - Obama isn't saying that America has ALWAYS been that way - if he said anything at all (I'm not saying he didn't - I just haven't heard or read it yet.)

And here we go with religion again. This country was never a Christian nation. You're talking out both sides of your mouth if you're going to accuse a group of not upholding the Constitution but then try make this a Christian nation. How can we be a nation of any one particular religion but then have religious freedom? It doesn't make sense. Too many people miss the fact that there is a huge, fundamental difference between believing in some sort of a god or creator, and following a religion. That doesn't even bring up those of us who are atheists and agnostics. This country offers personal freedoms - including religous freedoms; why try and bring Christianity into it?

The part that bugs me is when the writer quotes Obama about America "not living up to its ideals" and then puts words into his mouth making it sound like Obama doesn't care about all the lives and sacrifices given. The ideals those people fought for and the fact that they made those sacrifices are the very things he is saying we are not NOW living up to. He isn't desecrating their legacies; he's showing the world that we believe in what they fought for and to let this country go astray (like we have been doing recently) would desecrate their legacies. Igofaster - you mentioned a strawman. That's the problem I have with this letter and so many like it - he made his own strawman to knock Obama down. The problem is it's entirely unfounded which does absolutely nothing to help the cause.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Now the re-write of history begins?

This is what some conservatives think of George W.

A true conservative does not falsely profess a "humble" foreign policy, while pursuing a misguided and counterproductive agenda of unwanted occupation and domination (in contrast to the original noble goal of disarming a tyrant), alienating our allies, inflaming our enemies and increasing terrorist recruitment.

A truly conservative president does not claim to be a "strict constructionist" and respect the constitution, while subverting the constitutionally designated role of Congress to declare war and authorize force with the use of cherry-picked, flawed "intelligence".

A genuinely conservative president does not claim that he qualifies as a believer in limited government, even though he dramatically increases the power, scope and cost of government, just because he refuses to pay for it, leaving that for future generations.

A true conservative doesn’t boast that he will cut spending and then promise so may programs that even his supporters at the Wall Street Journal complain that his agenda reads “like a litany of tiny, poll-tested programs of the kind that Dick Morris used to gin up for Bill Clinton."

A true conservative doesn’t rely on a political consultant such as Karl Rove as a key domestic and foreign policy adviser, and have him sit in on meetings of the cabinet and National Security Council.

A true conservative doesn’t attempt to portray his opponents as big-spending liberals who will wreck the budget, when he himself has increase discretionary domestic spending at the highest rate of growth in 40 years, creating record deficits from a surplus he inherited from Democrats.

A true conservative doesn’t portray himself as a champion of free enterprise while handing out billions in contracts to cronies who are campaign contributors and letting corporate criminals name their own regulators. To the contrary, a true conservative recognizes that an impartial government free of corrupting influence, and the absence of corporate welfare, is essential to the proper functioning, fairness, and survival of the free enterprise capitalistic system in which we believe.

A true conservative does not think he’s shrunk the size of the federal bureaucracy just because he’s put it on your children’s credit card.

A true conservative does not simply claim to be for “family values”, carefully selecting issues for maximum symbolic impact, then do little to advance those causes, even opposing loyal Republican social conservative candidates (e.g. Pat Toomey) when it is politically expedient.

A true conservative does not become the first president in history to ask lawyers to find ways to get around the Geneva conventions prohibiting torture.

A true conservative does not have hand picked lawyers give him a legal opinions that as commander in chief he has the prerogative to “set aside” laws at his personal discretion, and then claim he’s spreading democracy.

A true conservative doesn’t claim to have “no ambitions of empire”, and then fill his administration with professed empire-builders.

A true conservative doesn’t campaign on promises of a “humble” relationship with other nations and then, as Treasury Secretary and National Security Council member Paul O’Neill reports, start secretly planning how he can justify a war at his first cabinet meeting within 10 days of inauguration.

A true conservative does not ignore 228 years of American foreign policy to adopt a National Security Strategy of “preventive war”, and then use cherry-picked and flawed intelligence to mislead Congress about the real motive for the war.

A true conservative does not brag that he rarely reads newspapers and prefers to get his news filtered by his staff.

Nor does a truly conservative president repeatedly ignore inconvenient facts and the advice of experienced military leaders and intelligence professionals when they conflict with his misinformed vision of reality, launch a misguided war while ignoring the warnings of experienced generals, commanders of CENTCOM and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, micro-mismanage the war against the advice of his generals on the ground, enact policies that massively increase terrorist recruitment and inflame terrorist passions, isolate America from our allies and inflame our enemies, and then claim that he’s made us safer.
​

True conservatives and Republicans recognize these claims as less than truthful.​

 

[Jim Craik]

Chris,

You are one eloquent guy.

 

[Jim Craik]

Pete,

Why weren't the conservatives saying this when he ran for re-election.

Judging by this, there are no "true" conservatives. Could Reagan, Bush1, Bush2, McCain, Romney, Palin or any others meet half of these points?

Why do "true" conservatives like Limbaugh say you cant be a true conservative unless you are for torture. Surely you will call him on that...... Not!

Where were these true conservatives when Bush2 ran for re-election, I'll tell you were they were, the were standing behind him with big smiles and check books.

True concevitives gave us Bush2 and they want to give it to us again.

 

[Jim Craik]

This is great, I like your plan....

You put together a list of all the bad things you have done and say: "We don't do this" when everyone knows you do.

What a great plan,

Maybe this will work too.....

A true Nazis doesn't invade Poland
A true Nazis doesn't set up concentration camps
A true Nazis doesn't kill millions of innocent people
A true Nazis ..........

Boy this makes sense, maybe we should give those Nazis another try...

 

[Ron R.]

Now the re-write of history begins?

Jim, Jim, Jim,

You've spent too much time in the Bay area. I know, it has it's good points...kind of a place that's nice to visit, but....

(And I lived there for 20 or so years, the last 6-7 of them in San Francisco, so I'm not just speaking without any experience)

That said, don't let the political milieu cloud your judgment, Bush2 is/was no more a conservative than McCain. And I wouldn't vote for him either. Judged by any reasonable standard, Bush2 did very little that could be considered "conservative." For that matter, neither did the Republican party...of which I'm not a member (and haven't been since the Bush years).

No history rewriting here, I'll leave that for the Obama administration.

 

[Ron R.]

BTW Jim,

I'm disappointed in you. Dropping a Natzi reference this early in a debate shows an extreme lack of creativity, and is all too common a tactic in internet debate. Bad form.

Since there is apparently little intelligent left so say,
I think I will refrain from further participation in this thread

Nite all.

 

[Jim Craik]

Gee Ron,

I though it was a very clever way to show how absurd the "a true Conservative does..." talking points are. But in hindsight I guess they were absurd enough on there own.

I'm sorry if my attempt to state the obvious upset you.

I agree that Bush1, Bush2 or Reagan for that matter did little that could be considered conservative. Then I wonder why do conservatives continually support Republicans. It just makes no sense.

If you look at the record, the Democrats haven't grown government anywhere like the Republicans, haven't raised taxes like Bush1, haven't passed gun control like Reagan, haven't passed illegal alien amnesty like Reagan, haven't cut taxes and started an illegal war with no way to pay for it, haven't illegally wire tapped US citizens and Clinton almost balanced the budget.

Can anyone explain why conservatives don't back Democrats?

Finally, Ron in my defence, I did not call anyone a Nazi (as the tea baggers do), I only used them to show how absurd the comments were.

One last thing, this is the only Internet sight I have ever interacted with, I hear that other sights can be pretty rough but I have no personal experience. I was unaware of the no Nazis on the first date rule, I shall be more careful in the future.

 

Nazis,,,,,,

Allah willing 6 more years.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ahhhh it's so good to be ruled by a BLACK, 1/2 Muslim communist.

I will send Prepration H and Geritol to Howard to make sure all is well with him for the next 6 years.

 

[Neal]

Nazis,,,,,,

Allah willing 6 more years.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ahhhh it's so good to be ruled by a BLACK, 1/2 Muslim communist.

You forgot undocumented US citizen...

 

[Howard Jones]

You all remember who President Bush ran against.........right? It's not hard to figure out how he got elected (dont't start that shit about the supreme's, it won't fly anymore)......if you do.

Send Royal Crown, Fred. I'm beginning to wonder if you are a raghead spy? HuMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..................???

Love ya man. Drop by and we'll down a few and watch the taxes go up! Oh ya... nobody under $250K........not one dime!!!! Ya right...