GT40 replica for Mini Cooper money
- Thread starter JIMMYMAC
- Start date
I did not write this article but provided the ammunition for it.
I do not have time to waste on bull but talk in the real world about how things can be and have been built to a high,reliable and safe standard.
If you are fortunate enough to be financially strong then you can spend a small fortune on every gold plated and go faster widget you want, and believe me there are many who do, but there has also been many a tear caused through more money than sense!!
Read the article properly rather than making funny jibes and it will point you in the direction of realism, unless of course money is no problem.
Graham @ GTA.
I do not have time to waste on bull but talk in the real world about how things can be and have been built to a high,reliable and safe standard.
If you are fortunate enough to be financially strong then you can spend a small fortune on every gold plated and go faster widget you want, and believe me there are many who do, but there has also been many a tear caused through more money than sense!!
Read the article properly rather than making funny jibes and it will point you in the direction of realism, unless of course money is no problem.
Graham @ GTA.
Chris Kouba
Supporter
Can someone post or link us to the article for those of us not in the UK? I'd guess there are a number of people who would be very interested in this one.
Chris
Chris
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Rick
The simple answer is NO! There many who trade in quite ordinary commodities and charge outrageous prices to prey upon people's vanity.
So, while you will seldom get the pinnacle of quality at a very low price, it DOES NOT FOLLOW that if you pay a high prices you WILL always get the pinnacle of quality.
I don't take offense at the statement, but I am getting quite tired of the phrase being used to deride anything that carries a lower price than one is offering or as a blanket justification for ones price point in the market. BTW, adding the preamble "No offense meant" doesn't give one license to then say what ever one feels like saying, pardoned from any offense that someone might take as a result. The statement was clearly a jibe at another's product offering.
What one must strive for is VALUE, which to me says the quality that is sufficient for the need at a price that is reasonable or comparable for a product of equivalent quality.
That said I am, by no means, making a judgment on the product you represent. I think the RF is a fine product at a good price: in other words, a good value. But that doesn't preclude another product which may be available at a lower price from having as good or better value for its price either. Speaking for myself, I would rather that such comments be reserved for marketing materials or for the manufacturer's section of the forum.
I guess I am spring loaded to the pissed off position where negative marketing (campaigning) is concerned.
Regards,
Lynn
Edit: this is a statement of my personal opinion and I speak for no one else or no other entity in making it.
The simple answer is NO! There many who trade in quite ordinary commodities and charge outrageous prices to prey upon people's vanity.
So, while you will seldom get the pinnacle of quality at a very low price, it DOES NOT FOLLOW that if you pay a high prices you WILL always get the pinnacle of quality.
I don't take offense at the statement, but I am getting quite tired of the phrase being used to deride anything that carries a lower price than one is offering or as a blanket justification for ones price point in the market. BTW, adding the preamble "No offense meant" doesn't give one license to then say what ever one feels like saying, pardoned from any offense that someone might take as a result. The statement was clearly a jibe at another's product offering.
What one must strive for is VALUE, which to me says the quality that is sufficient for the need at a price that is reasonable or comparable for a product of equivalent quality.
That said I am, by no means, making a judgment on the product you represent. I think the RF is a fine product at a good price: in other words, a good value. But that doesn't preclude another product which may be available at a lower price from having as good or better value for its price either. Speaking for myself, I would rather that such comments be reserved for marketing materials or for the manufacturer's section of the forum.
I guess I am spring loaded to the pissed off position where negative marketing (campaigning) is concerned.
Regards,
Lynn
Edit: this is a statement of my personal opinion and I speak for no one else or no other entity in making it.
No offence meant, but thats BOLLOCKS Lynn!
You read too much into a few phrases. I merely mean that if one has to design and build a decent chassis, set up and lay (or purchase from someone else) a decent body, then back the whole thing up with a sensible build manual and add all the ancilliaries and if you are in business make a profit (which in the case of the GT40 market is generally small if the car is to be price competitive) it will cost a lot more than 10k.
Something has to give Lynn - thats my point and therefore you get what you pay for!
Best wishes
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
You read too much into a few phrases. I merely mean that if one has to design and build a decent chassis, set up and lay (or purchase from someone else) a decent body, then back the whole thing up with a sensible build manual and add all the ancilliaries and if you are in business make a profit (which in the case of the GT40 market is generally small if the car is to be price competitive) it will cost a lot more than 10k.
Something has to give Lynn - thats my point and therefore you get what you pay for!
Best wishes
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
OH DEAR,
Here we go again. More totally unnecessary put downs.
My gratefull thanks to Lynn and all others for their common sense and proper reading of the article.
It is little wonder that i don,t say much on the forum now as there is always one who has to know better and contradict everything.....
Graham.
Here we go again. More totally unnecessary put downs.
My gratefull thanks to Lynn and all others for their common sense and proper reading of the article.
It is little wonder that i don,t say much on the forum now as there is always one who has to know better and contradict everything.....
Graham.
Wish we could see the article in question....but if it's from a current publicaton I guess we can't infringe on copyright and all...
I assume the thrust of the article is someone built a GT40
for a below normal amount of cash due to either a lot of
hard work, a lot of luck, or some combination of both.
The auto world is full of these stories which make fun
reading because they show what can be done under CERTAIN
circumstances. But I guess they also can create misunderstanding/heart ache because they can
lead naive readers into believing anyone can duplicate that feat, which seldom happens. Usually it's a unique set of circumstances. Everyone is different, with different
skill sets, business savy, and yes definitely luck.
MikeD
I assume the thrust of the article is someone built a GT40
for a below normal amount of cash due to either a lot of
hard work, a lot of luck, or some combination of both.
The auto world is full of these stories which make fun
reading because they show what can be done under CERTAIN
circumstances. But I guess they also can create misunderstanding/heart ache because they can
lead naive readers into believing anyone can duplicate that feat, which seldom happens. Usually it's a unique set of circumstances. Everyone is different, with different
skill sets, business savy, and yes definitely luck.
MikeD
The `funny jibes` was by no means knocking your product Graham so don`t take things personaly, just a reflection of Will Holman writing what I believe to be crap and he`s been around long enough and should know better.
I could have had a good old rant about this article but made a joke of it instead, I didn`t feel it worth the rant but.........
This article starts with the front page headline - `Build a 5 litre V8 powered GT40 replica for Mini Cooper money` and infers in the first paragraph that this can be done for `nearer 10K` leading the uninformed reader into thinking that around 10K and a little savy will get him a car just like the one in the pictures.
The article also claims you can `build a faithful replica of that will be genuinly as good as the real thing`
To say that this can be done to `a high,reliable and safe standard.` for around this mystical 10K is just plain wrong, not when 6K has gone on the body and chassis.
Around 4K will not be enough to complete the build on a car to this `high, reliable and safe standard` and will not get you anything like the one in the photos, and that`s where this article is misleading.
Like a lot of builders on this forum, I think I`m in the majority where money IS a problem and `realism` is exactly what this article should have put across, not leading another poor sod into a half finished project to sell on at a loss, after having put a shit load of money, effort and time into it.
This article is misleading, I`m not sure about any of the others but I saw it as a joke and treated it as such, simple as that.
I could have had a good old rant about this article but made a joke of it instead, I didn`t feel it worth the rant but.........
This article starts with the front page headline - `Build a 5 litre V8 powered GT40 replica for Mini Cooper money` and infers in the first paragraph that this can be done for `nearer 10K` leading the uninformed reader into thinking that around 10K and a little savy will get him a car just like the one in the pictures.
The article also claims you can `build a faithful replica of that will be genuinly as good as the real thing`
To say that this can be done to `a high,reliable and safe standard.` for around this mystical 10K is just plain wrong, not when 6K has gone on the body and chassis.
Around 4K will not be enough to complete the build on a car to this `high, reliable and safe standard` and will not get you anything like the one in the photos, and that`s where this article is misleading.
Like a lot of builders on this forum, I think I`m in the majority where money IS a problem and `realism` is exactly what this article should have put across, not leading another poor sod into a half finished project to sell on at a loss, after having put a shit load of money, effort and time into it.
This article is misleading, I`m not sure about any of the others but I saw it as a joke and treated it as such, simple as that.
Sorry Graham...I don't have access to the article.
And I agree with your statement, except that word
"affordable" is completely dependent on whom you ask.
What is affordable to you may not be to me.
One of the issues we've been debating some time on this
Forum is whether it's possible for a small manufacturer
to offer a GT40 replica at a MAJOR cost reduction over
those currently on the market. I believe it can be done,
while many others disagree. In fact I was pretty sure
Factory Five was going to be that company, until they
signed away their rights to do so under the Shelby lawsuit.
Will someone else come through? IMHO I think so...
but it may not happen for several years.
MikeD
And I agree with your statement, except that word
"affordable" is completely dependent on whom you ask.
What is affordable to you may not be to me.
One of the issues we've been debating some time on this
Forum is whether it's possible for a small manufacturer
to offer a GT40 replica at a MAJOR cost reduction over
those currently on the market. I believe it can be done,
while many others disagree. In fact I was pretty sure
Factory Five was going to be that company, until they
signed away their rights to do so under the Shelby lawsuit.
Will someone else come through? IMHO I think so...
but it may not happen for several years.
MikeD
Will Holman does not talk crap and his exact words in a final sentence of a paragraph are "But what if you could build one for nearer £10,000"
No where in the article does it say that it is all finished off for that price but a good rolling chassis(powdercoated) complete with all bodywork, lighting and covers, floorpan,alloy sheeting, rivets,dzus fasteners,clips, seat belt fittings,rear air vent, water piping,fuel tanks,radiator,brake piping,battery cable,windscreen, etc, etc, etc, CAN and HAVE been supplied and those less well off WILL be able to have their dreams created for far, far less than they ever thought possible.
What is the point of doing these articles or having to waste valuable time over them if all one gets is negativity.
I very much doubt that any who deride the statements made have ever seen my build quality and probably have not constructed their own cars. I,m not a kit manufacturer. I build cars or supply parts or my knowledge at very sensible prices and do it my way. Just like others do it their way...
I really do wonder if many of you doubters really know what it is to be self employed in the specialised world of limited market car manufacture. Andy Sheldon at Tornado, Mark Sibley at MDA, Robert Logan at Roaring Forties, ETC, ETC, plus others like me , Chris Melia, Frank Catt, ETC, ETC (forgive lack of full list of names and we all deserve medals) have to make a living in this rarified world and it is not easy when wasting time with individuals who just want to argue and doubt all the time.
There are 24 hours in a day and most of us need 72 hours in order to do the work and keep up with all the phone calls and time wasters. I,ve said my bit.No more. My time is too valuable and i must keep my costs down.........
Graham @ GTA
No where in the article does it say that it is all finished off for that price but a good rolling chassis(powdercoated) complete with all bodywork, lighting and covers, floorpan,alloy sheeting, rivets,dzus fasteners,clips, seat belt fittings,rear air vent, water piping,fuel tanks,radiator,brake piping,battery cable,windscreen, etc, etc, etc, CAN and HAVE been supplied and those less well off WILL be able to have their dreams created for far, far less than they ever thought possible.
What is the point of doing these articles or having to waste valuable time over them if all one gets is negativity.
I very much doubt that any who deride the statements made have ever seen my build quality and probably have not constructed their own cars. I,m not a kit manufacturer. I build cars or supply parts or my knowledge at very sensible prices and do it my way. Just like others do it their way...
I really do wonder if many of you doubters really know what it is to be self employed in the specialised world of limited market car manufacture. Andy Sheldon at Tornado, Mark Sibley at MDA, Robert Logan at Roaring Forties, ETC, ETC, plus others like me , Chris Melia, Frank Catt, ETC, ETC (forgive lack of full list of names and we all deserve medals) have to make a living in this rarified world and it is not easy when wasting time with individuals who just want to argue and doubt all the time.
There are 24 hours in a day and most of us need 72 hours in order to do the work and keep up with all the phone calls and time wasters. I,ve said my bit.No more. My time is too valuable and i must keep my costs down.........
Graham @ GTA
I HAVE SEEN GRAHAMS CAR AND HAVE LOOKED EVEYWERE ALL OVER IT AND I HAVE SEEN MANY A SO CALLED CAR BUILDER WHO SAY THAT THEY CAN BUILD CARS FOR X AMOUNT AND IT IS MOST OF THE TIME TOTAL CRAP. THIS MAN CAN BUILD VERY GOOD CARS TO A STANDERD HIGHER THAN MOST PROS. AS FOR THE COST GRAHAMS CAR DID COST MORE THAN 10K BUT A LOT LESS THAN 20K BECAUSE HE USED COMMAN SENSE, AND IS GOOD AT WHAT HE DOUES AS SIMPLE AS THAT. MY CAR IS ALSO BUILT TO A BUDGET OF LESS THAN GRAHAMS BUT WILL BE JUST AS GOOD.ITS DOWN TO YOU THE BUILDE TO DO A GOOD JOB NOT HOW FAT YOUR WALLET IS GRAHAMS CAR HAS BEEN PROVED ON THE TRACK.
NICK DAMES
NICK DAMES
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
NIck,
Just a question, I have been working away, so haven't read the article. With your's/Graham's budget, I assume you are building to Q plate? If not, please explain how your are doing this via eMail, as I am interested.
Brett
Just a question, I have been working away, so haven't read the article. With your's/Graham's budget, I assume you are building to Q plate? If not, please explain how your are doing this via eMail, as I am interested.
Brett
Personally,
I think a LARGE portion of the budget can be saved if you have the time/ability to do a lot of the work yourself. ie buying aluminium in sheets, measuring/cutting. Building your own engine from a s/h and block, prepping the body for paint. There are lots of things that you can learn to do yourself and it depends on your budget and the tme you have available whether you pay somebody else to do it.
I didn't build my GTD, but I did build my Cobra, and the only things I paid other people to do were to rebuild the bearbox (have you ever looked inside one!!!) and the rear diff ('spensive tools needed) saved a bundle!
Simon
ps, Brett, will take the pics and email.
I think a LARGE portion of the budget can be saved if you have the time/ability to do a lot of the work yourself. ie buying aluminium in sheets, measuring/cutting. Building your own engine from a s/h and block, prepping the body for paint. There are lots of things that you can learn to do yourself and it depends on your budget and the tme you have available whether you pay somebody else to do it.
I didn't build my GTD, but I did build my Cobra, and the only things I paid other people to do were to rebuild the bearbox (have you ever looked inside one!!!) and the rear diff ('spensive tools needed) saved a bundle!
Simon
ps, Brett, will take the pics and email.
